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Old 08-28-2020, 07:26 AM   #1
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Strength Saves

How often do you do a saving throw against ST? The most common one I can think of is 4/ST against poison and I do not see a bunch of PCs rushing to get ST 18 to protect against that.

So why not include a bunch of 2/ST saves against various magics, alchemy and critters?
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Old 08-28-2020, 08:59 AM   #2
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Strength Saves

I make liberal use of 'spot checks' for all kinds of things the players attempt (provided it is at a dramatic moment where a die roll feels worth it); ST gets used whenever people lift something, pull themselves up on something, etc.
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Old 08-29-2020, 01:03 PM   #3
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Strength Saves

You're the one who frequently posts uber ST 6-9 expert/master warriors, and also posts about how Shield Rush is useless, no?

Do damage rolls count as ST saves?
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Old 08-30-2020, 04:24 AM   #4
JimmyPlenty
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Strength Saves

In Hexagram #4, with Steve's alternate Forced Retreat rules, I'd like to see that be a ST challenge rather than DX.

The face that ST regulates a concrete damage factor makes it relevant even if it doesn't get checked as much as the other two stats.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:47 AM   #5
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Strength Saves

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
How often do you do a saving throw against ST?
A poison saving roll does not always have to be 4 vs ST. It can be how ever many dice depending on how effective the GM wants the poison to be. And the save may only reduce the damage instead of preventing all of it.

See ITL pg 95 under Snakes
"Very large or very venomous snakes may have
poison that requires a harder saving throw, does more damage
if the saving throw is missed (or partial damage even if the
throw is made), or has some strange effect – see Poisons."

There are a number of ST save situations in the game:
- poison: see above
- shield rush defense: 2 vs ST or 3 vs ST.
- shield rush offense: ST is used to determine the # of dice
- knock down a door: 5+ vs ST.
- resist vampire/werewolf disease: 3 vs ST (I have not played the new undead modules, so I don't know if this has changed)
- a large air elemental blowing you over: 3 vs ST
- escaping a giant scorpion's pincer grasp: 4 vs ST
- escaping Kraken's graps: 3 vs ST
- pushing through Bloodtree vines: 3 vs ST
- escaping Bloodtree vines: 4 vs current ST
- pulling up from grasping a ledge from failed jump over hold: 4 vs ST
- against knockdown from a gernade: 3 vs ST
- breaking free from a HTH pin: 4 vs ST
- resist traps: example, crushing walls trap 6 vs ST
- escape Pit Trap Plants: 5 vs ST (or a small one at 3 vs ST)
- Amulet Against Drunkenness: 3 vs ST to activate

And I thought there was one that was a save against ST+DX in one of the microgames.

- Pulling a rider from his mount: 6 vs ST+DX

- And contest rolls (see ITL pg 8) for anything the GM comes up with.


So really, if you have a GM that wishes to minimize Mollys he/she would have more poisonous traps, arrows and animals; situations requiring feats of strength; more creatures that carry disease; and more monsters that grab and hold victims.
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Old 08-31-2020, 11:51 AM   #6
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Strength Saves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
So really, if you have a GM that wishes to minimize Mollys he/she would have more poisonous traps, arrows and animals; situations requiring feats of strength; more creatures that carry disease; and more monsters that grab and hold victims.
I.e. you need a character who can spot traps, critters, ambushes, and dodge while attacking, like a Molly? ;-)
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Old 08-31-2020, 01:20 PM   #7
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Strength Saves

I think both the positive and negative views of the whole 'Molly' business are overblown; TFT is quite balanced yet diverse system, so there are many kinds of characters that can be competitive, particularly in specific tactical situations that suit their strengths. But no one of them is meaningfully better, overall, than many others you could propose, and the more extreme of them have very obvious disadvantages that could be capitalized on by rather ordinary foes. For example, a reasonably competent 32 pt archer would almost certainly murder a Molly within 1-2 turns in most tactical situations.
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Old 09-01-2020, 07:05 AM   #8
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Strength Saves

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I think both the positive and negative views of the whole 'Molly' business are overblown
Yes I agree. The only time it (or any other the other issues: whips & bolas, cheap magic items, etc) becomes a problem is if all your players are trying to exploit it and thus the game loses something. GM then makes adjustments so other play style become interesting and viable. And it goes on.

Some of these would be best repaired by a rules change. I think we've already covered those.

But we digress from ST saves.
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