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Old 07-10-2013, 06:03 PM   #31
Icelander
 
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Default Re: Slings, realistic physics, The Deadly Spring

Quote:
Originally Posted by apoc527 View Post
I'd be inclined to call it crushing and then be done with it then in my games. Piercing for slings is probably the strange part. And I have no trouble believing that a ST 14 person firing a sling stone for 7 damage will do some damage to a guy in chainmail. Maybe not 5 damage, but 3 for sure.
A lot of the disconnect is because the higher ST guy is still using ammunition of the same weight. That doesn't fit with reality, where a 28g projectile is not going to hurt anyone wearing padded mail, no matter who propels it.

The strong guy, however, can use heavier projectiles without losing too much velocity. That's the advantage.

And with ST 14, he ought to be able to use 1-lb stones or even 1-lb lead glandes. And those can hurt at 45+ m/s.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:28 PM   #32
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Default Sling projectile types, weight and other musings

As a quick-and-dirty fix, I plan to have sling projectiles affect the stats somewhat more than they do.

The basic stats, whatever they end up being, represent picked stones of the appropriate weight. Every individual slinger and sling combination will have different prefered weights, but in general, in order to get a higher damage from higher ST, it's necessary to use heavier projectiles. Sling length will similarly be dependent on the individual slinger, but tend to be longer to make use of higher ST.

Using a higher or lower weight projectile than your optimum will reduce Acc, Range and/or damage, though it can be a valid strategy to use much heavier projectiles than you get your best ranges with, in order to get more damage at short range.

As long as I include an AD and have damage be crushing, not to mention require heavier projectiles for increased damage, there's no obvious reason why the Range and Dmg listed for the sling in LT can't be used until something better comes along. I don't object to terrible wounding, as long as it doesn't penetrate much better than in reality.

I guess that a typical rock has AD(0.25) against any kind of rigid armour harder than rock* or any metal armour and AD(1/3) otherwise.

Edit: This represents poor penetration and performacne in general against any kind of proper armour, i.e. external to the target, with padding and suchlike. If the DR is instead part of the target, such as when damaging shields or vehicles, all ADs for sling projectiles ought to be improved by two steps, to the maximum of AD(1).

The steps are AD (0.1), AD (0.2), AD(0.25), AD(1/3), AD(0.5), AD(2/3) and AD(1), or slightlly more steps than are in the regular progression, to allow for more fine-tuned performance.

I'm thinking that sw cr represents a rock of ca 0.06-0.1 lbs. for a normal character, ST 8-12. Range x6/x10 is okay for that, but given that a 51g rock has been slung 475m or so, there ought to be some way to reach further.

An alternate mode of use that requires time for set-up, can only be done as an All-Out Attack and uses a very high arc, for a penalty to hit?

I could see 1-second set-up allowing +50% Max Range, i.e. Range x6/x15 for a typical sling, for a -2 to hit and 2-second set-up allowing x2 Max Range, i.e. Range x6/x20, for a -5 to hit. All-Out Attack (Strong) would add +1/3 to Max Range in addition to adding to damage.

I suppose that a prerequisite for such dramatic improvements would be having a fairly long sling, i.e. 4-5 feet and/or a staff sling. With only a regular length sling and normal weight projectiles, the maximum increase in distance would probably be a 1-second set-up followed by an All-Out Attack (Strong), totalling something like a +50% Max Range and -2 to hit.

If I come up with something to make the length of slings affect base stats, I'd have to rework the percentage of improvements possible.

The lighter rocks of 0.05 lbs. would be too light for optimal damage at ST 10+ and instead represent a cheap and handy type of harassment ammunition. Give ammunition of ca 2/3 weight -1 per two die to damage and disallow boosting range beyond +50% with a high arc and set-up, as it lacks enough heft for it. Ammunition of half the weight required for your ST gives -1/die damage and cannot benefit from boosting range at all, except the +1/3 from All-Out Attack (Strong).

Ammunition that weighs 100% more than your ST requires would give +1 per two die to damage, at the cost of reducing Max Range by 20%. Range x6/x8.

Very heavy projectiles, like those used for LT's Heavy Sling, are possible. Ammunition that is around 500% of the basic projectile weight for your ST would give -2 to skill against point targets (but not if aimed at a hex) and reduce Max Range to the same as 1/2 Range, i.e. Range x6/x6, but give +1/die to damage.

Projectiles are assumed to be chosen for aerodynamic properties. If not, reduce ranges down to x4/x6 for unwieldy rocks of the standard size, x4/x5 for heavier ones and x4/x4 for very heavy ones. Maximum Range can be boosted as above, more or less regardless of projectile type.

Density is important to range and damage both.

Fired clay and similar projectiles will generally be light, but this is not required, as long as the sling has a large enough pouch for the projectile. In addition to any modifications for weight, fired clay or other projectiles of similar density receive -1 to damage per die and has Range 4x/x8 for standard weight ones. They fragment on impact with anything remotely hard, which means AD is (0.1) against any rigid armour harder than fired clay as well as any metal armour, AD(0.2) otherwise.

On the other hand, the use of fired clay allows projectiles to be shaped in a perfect aerodynamic shape, which for slinging techniques usually means biconical or ovoid, much like an American football. This gives Range x5/x10 and only -1 per two dice damage. Since it impacts end-on, it also helps penetration, despite usually fragmenting against the target. AD (0.2) against metal armour and rigid armour harder than fired clay and AD(0.25) otherwise. The predictable shape and weight also gives +1 to Acc.

If anyone bothers to cut stone into similar aerodynamic shape, it gets +1 per two dice of damage, Range x8/x12 and AD(0.33) against rigid armour harder than stone or any metal armour and AD(0.5) otherwise. It gets the same +1 to Acc.

Lead was consistently the favourite material for war projectiles of sling-using cultures that had access to it. A lead projectile of the same weight as a stone, with a similar design, will be much smaller. This gives +1 per two dice to damage and Range x10/x15. It has AD(0.33) against any metal armour or rigid armour made from harder materials and AD(0.5) otherwise.

Lead is usually formed into aerodynamic biconical or ovoid shapes, which gives +1 per die to damage, Range x12/x18 and AD (0.5) against metal or rigid armour made from harder materials and AD(0.67) otherwise. This also gives +1 to Acc.

Edit: At longer ranges, it becomes important to use rules analogous to the Bullet Travel time in TS. In addition, penetration also goes down at longer ranges, even beyond what the reduction of kinetic energy and momentum would indicate, because the projectile is likely to strike from an angle above. To simulate this, reduce AD by one step at at distances beyond 25% of Maximum Range. This does not apply to very heavy projectiles (500% weight), which have a different penetration and wounding mechanism, relying more on momentum.

*With the caveat that the rigid armour in question must be thick and heavy enough compared to the projectile to actually count as armour and not just a part of the target that's treated as DR. Glass windows may have DR 1, but that's not rigid armour for these purposes. Thick glass casing with DR 3 usually would be, though, unless the projectile is very big. So far, this is a GM's judgment call, but eventually, I hope to have a definable rule for it.
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Last edited by Icelander; 07-12-2013 at 01:02 AM.
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