Vitality Reserve, Revisited

[Varyon]

It's a concept that appears to have come up on these fora several times in the past - enough for a Kromm post, even. As noted in the linked post, Vitality Reserve is to HP what Energy Reserve is to FP. It's a cinematic trait that essentially represents a combination of luck and fortitude - damage to VR consists entirely of mere flesh wounds. However, for me at least, it does leave... something to be desired.

My first experience with the concept was when reading the rulebooks for the d20 Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook (SWRCR). In that, there were Vitality Points (equivalent to d20 HP) and Wound Points (equivalent to GURPS HP). I would prefer to have a VR that behaved much like these VP, so here are the differences:

Armor: Armor is Star Wars is typically more for appearances or nifty abilities than defense, so in SWRCR it gave GURPS-like DR to WP, but was completely ignored for purposes of VP.
This didn't set quite well with me. I'd prefer to have DR still have some effect while relying on VR, but having it less effective would work. I feel a -40% reduction on VR would be about right for DR to have no effect - would -20% for half DR be appropriate, or should it be more like -10%?

Critical Hits: A critical hit typically represents getting hit full-on. In SWRCR, a critical hit went straight to Wound Points, regardless of how much VP you had remaining.
This would be appropriate for a GURPS critical hit as well. I'm thinking if it's just another option on the Critical Hit Table, or outright replaces the table, this might be a Feature. If it applies and you roll on the Critical Hit Table, I'm thinking somewhere around -5% and -10%. Thoughts?

Energy Reserve: SWRCR lacked any sort of mana, MP, ER, etc, and instead had abilities that would normally consume such drain from VP.
Naturally, in GURPS, we can just use FP, ER, etc, but should the option to burn VP be available - and if so, how well does it work? I'm thinking you should have to spend at least as much VP as what a single point of ER would cost (so if your modified VP is worth [1]/level, you'll need to burn 3 per equivalent point of FP/ER; needing to burn 5 may be more appropriate, as VR has more utility).

Disruptors: In SWRCR, there were a few weapons/powers - notably the disruptor rifles/pistols - that completely ignored VP on a hit. They effectively either missed or were automatically critical hits.
For GURPS, this seems to clearly be a case of Cosmic. I'm thinking the +300% level is appropriate (same as Ignores DR). Weapons that are capable of this were typically rather short-ranged, which in d20 is appropriate for inaccurate weapons - so naturally such should have short range, low Acc, in GURPS, and it may be appropriate to ignore the "Bypasses VR" aspect beyond 1/2D range. Thoughts?

Caught Unawares: Characters in SWRCR got to make use of VP on anything that wasn't a critical hit (or a disruptor, above), although d20 had a coup-de-grace action that was an automatic critical hit on helpless targets.
As with armor, this never set quite right with me. I feel that an attack the character is completely unaware of should bypass VR, even if the target isn't otherwise helpless. "Not Against Sneak Attacks" might be appropriate as -20% or so, but this might be too powerful for sneaky characters.
The solution I came up with for d20 was to give the target one extra chance - with a nice bonus - to detect the sneak attack. If successful, it would VP would apply - this would represent the hero noticing Something being wrong just in time to not die horribly. In GURPS, I'm thinking that maybe doing the same thing - a quick contest between an appropriate "sneaking" skill (Acting, Camouflage, Fast-Talk, Stealth, whatever fits the situation) and the higher of the character's Per+2 or appropriate detection skill +2, would work. A successful Danger Sense roll would probably give +3 or so to the detection roll.
Obviously, the above isn't as crippling as "Not Against Sneak Attacks," so what Limitation value would be appropriate?

Regeneration: WP in SWRCR were Serious Business because the majority of healing abilities/technology focused on repairing VP, and WP naturally regenerated at a much slower rate.
For GURPS, I'm considering having the existing healing options fix up VR at double (or maybe even triple or greater) rate, but only fix up HP at a rate of 1 HP per 1d. For natural regeneration, current levels of HP regeneration are probably OK, but VP needs to heal at a much more rapid rate. What series of Advantages and Disadvantages (or modifications to HP/VR) would be appropriate here?

Level Cap: d20 is a class and level based system, and SWRCR was no exception. Everyone got VP based on class (with combat-oriented classes having higher VP) and level, with a nice bonus from Con (WP was set as equal to Con).
GURPS, on the other hand, lacks the restrictions of levels and classes, but I'd still like to retain some of the idea. While this may prove to be organic - fighters will tend to buy more VR than mages and scholars - I'd like to have some idea of capping VR. Currently, I'm thinking everyone can buy VR up to HP at no problem (in fact, this might even be free). After this, you can buy 1 VR for every 5 points spent on combat skills/advantages (Unarmed/Melee; Combat Reflexes/Weapon Master/etc) or every 10 points on combat-support skills/advantages (Acrobatics/Shield/Stealth/Ranged; Danger Sense/Talents/etc). Characters can also buy up to 1 VR for every 25 character points. So, a theoretical 150-point character with HP 12, Brawling at DX+2 [4], Broadsword at DX+2 [8], Shield at DX+1 [2], Bow at DX+1 [4], and Stealth at DX+1 [4] could have up to VR 21 (12 for HP, 2 for 12 points in Combat, 1 for 10 points in Combat-Support, and 6 for being a 150-point character). Thoughts?

[vierasmarius]

One solution that does what the SW Vitality Pool achieves, without introducing a new stat in GURPS, is to treat it as a combination of Luck and (FP-fueled) Extra Effort. Armor doesn't protect against SW VP damage because it's not actually damage. The character barely managed to avoid getting hurt, through luck, the Force, or extreme effort. GURPS has a deep enough combat system that you don't have to abstract all that out into a single point pool.

Vitality Reserve in GURPS is less like SW's Vitality Pool and more like Palladium's Structural Damage Capacity, which represented characters (often fantasy or comic-book heroes) who could endure unrealistic amounts of physical trauma without slowing down. (IT:DR is also useful to represent such characters.) If you want characters who can avoid damage by spending "luck", there's already a trait for that - Luck.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by Varyon

It's a concept that appears to have come up on these fora several times in the past - enough for a Kromm post, even. As noted in the linked post, Vitality Reserve is to HP what Energy Reserve is to FP. It's a cinematic trait that essentially represents a combination of luck and fortitude - damage to VR consists entirely of mere flesh wounds. However, for me at least, it does leave... something to be desired.

My first experience with the concept was when reading the rulebooks for the d20 Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook (SWRCR). In that, there were Vitality Points (equivalent to d20 HP) and Wound Points (equivalent to GURPS HP). I would prefer to have a VR that behaved much like these VP, so here are the differences:

Armor: Armor is Star Wars is typically more for appearances or nifty abilities than defense, so in SWRCR it gave GURPS-like DR to WP, but was completely ignored for purposes of VP.
This didn't set quite well with me. I'd prefer to have DR still have some effect while relying on VR, but having it less effective would work. I feel a -40% reduction on VR would be about right for DR to have no effect - would -20% for half DR be appropriate, or should it be more like -10%?

This is functionally VR coming before DR, in which case it may as well be Ablative DR instead.

Critical Hits: A critical hit typically represents getting hit full-on. In SWRCR, a critical hit went straight to Wound Points, regardless of how much VP you had remaining.
This would be appropriate for a GURPS critical hit as well. I'm thinking if it's just another option on the Critical Hit Table, or outright replaces the table, this might be a Feature. If it applies and you roll on the Critical Hit Table, I'm thinking somewhere around -5% and -10%. Thoughts?

Critical hits ignoring Vitality was a bad idea in d20. Replicating it in GURPS seems pointless.
Vitality Reserves are to protect you from the vicissitudes of random die rolls letting attacks slip past your defences.

Energy Reserve: SWRCR lacked any sort of mana, MP, ER, etc, and instead had abilities that would normally consume such drain from VP.
Naturally, in GURPS, we can just use FP, ER, etc, but should the option to burn VP be available - and if so, how well does it work? I'm thinking you should have to spend at least as much VP as what a single point of ER would cost (so if your modified VP is worth [1]/level, you'll need to burn 3 per equivalent point of FP/ER; needing to burn 5 may be more appropriate, as VR has more utility).

Vitality includes Fatigue. Being able to take the HP wound from overspending Fatigue on your Vitality is sufficient.
If you actually want them to directly cross over, you could cost it as having a VR and an ER of the same level as Alternate abilities, so spending from one spends from the other.

Disruptors: In SWRCR, there were a few weapons/powers - notably the disruptor rifles/pistols - that completely ignored VP on a hit. They effectively either missed or were automatically critical hits.
For GURPS, this seems to clearly be a case of Cosmic. I'm thinking the +300% level is appropriate (same as Ignores DR). Weapons that are capable of this were typically rather short-ranged, which in d20 is appropriate for inaccurate weapons - so naturally such should have short range, low Acc, in GURPS, and it may be appropriate to ignore the "Bypasses VR" aspect beyond 1/2D range. Thoughts?

I think they were dumb there and would be dumb here. If you really insist on porting this, I'd say make it a Limitation on the VR.

Caught Unawares: Characters in SWRCR got to make use of VP on anything that wasn't a critical hit (or a disruptor, above), although d20 had a coup-de-grace action that was an automatic critical hit on helpless targets.
As with armor, this never set quite right with me. I feel that an attack the character is completely unaware of should bypass VR, even if the target isn't otherwise helpless. "Not Against Sneak Attacks" might be appropriate as -20% or so, but this might be too powerful for sneaky characters.
The solution I came up with for d20 was to give the target one extra chance - with a nice bonus - to detect the sneak attack. If successful, it would VP would apply - this would represent the hero noticing Something being wrong just in time to not die horribly. In GURPS, I'm thinking that maybe doing the same thing - a quick contest between an appropriate "sneaking" skill (Acting, Camouflage, Fast-Talk, Stealth, whatever fits the situation) and the higher of the character's Per+2 or appropriate detection skill +2, would work. A successful Danger Sense roll would probably give +3 or so to the detection roll.
Obviously, the above isn't as crippling as "Not Against Sneak Attacks," so what Limitation value would be appropriate?

Vitality partly represents the luck and cinematic nick-of-time awareness that prevents you being punked by surprise attacks.
It sounds like what you really want is ... not Vitality.

[QuoteRegeneration: WP in SWRCR were Serious Business because the majority of healing abilities/technology focused on repairing VP, and WP naturally regenerated at a much slower rate.
For GURPS, I'm considering having the existing healing options fix up VR at double (or maybe even triple or greater) rate, but only fix up HP at a rate of 1 HP per 1d. For natural regeneration, current levels of HP regeneration are probably OK, but VP needs to heal at a much more rapid rate. What series of Advantages and Disadvantages (or modifications to HP/VR) would be appropriate here?[/quote]

GURPS healing is already quite slow. For the VR, take Regeneration: Vitality only.

Level Cap: d20 is a class and level based system, and SWRCR was no exception. Everyone got VP based on class (with combat-oriented classes having higher VP) and level, with a nice bonus from Con (WP was set as equal to Con).
GURPS, on the other hand, lacks the restrictions of levels and classes, but I'd still like to retain some of the idea. While this may prove to be organic - fighters will tend to buy more VR than mages and scholars - I'd like to have some idea of capping VR. Currently, I'm thinking everyone can buy VR up to HP at no problem (in fact, this might even be free). After this, you can buy 1 VR for every 5 points spent on combat skills/advantages (Unarmed/Melee; Combat Reflexes/Weapon Master/etc) or every 10 points on combat-support skills/advantages (Acrobatics/Shield/Stealth/Ranged; Danger Sense/Talents/etc). Characters can also buy up to 1 VR for every 25 character points. So, a theoretical 150-point character with HP 12, Brawling at DX+2 [4], Broadsword at DX+2 [8], Shield at DX+1 [2], Bow at DX+1 [4], and Stealth at DX+1 [4] could have up to VR 21 (12 for HP, 2 for 12 points in Combat, 1 for 10 points in Combat-Support, and 6 for being a 150-point character). Thoughts?

Sounds needlessly fiddly.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

One solution that does what the SW Vitality Pool achieves, without introducing a new stat in GURPS, is to treat it as a combination of Luck and (FP-fueled) Extra Effort. Armor doesn't protect against SW VP damage because it's not actually damage. The character barely managed to avoid getting hurt, through luck, the Force, or extreme effort. GURPS has a deep enough combat system that you don't have to abstract all that out into a single point pool.

Luck is rather expensive to get at decent levels, even with a Defenses Only Limitation, and isn't quite what I want. VR's more like having a reserve of Destiny points that are only usable for Flesh Wounds, with the malus of costing more points for more powerful hits and bonus of not actually causing HP damage (this latter isn't much of a bonus here, however, as I'll probably be using a semi-cumulative wounding system for HP, wherein 1 HP wounds would accumulate very slowly).
It will need to be tested out first, however, as with how difficult it can be to land a hit in GURPS (thanks to active defenses) it may make combat last entirely too long (in which case Luck would be a better fit, as it would just draw combat out a bit more and protect the PC from the occasional lucky hit).

As for armor's protection, the reason I'd like to retain a bit of it is two-fold. First, the damage to VR is directly proportional to what the damage to HP would be, so it follows that if you have something protecting your HP it should at least partially protect VR (avoiding a 6 damage attack shouldn't "drain" as much Luck/Vigor/Whatever if it would have only caused 1 HP of damage). Second, it's always struck me as odd that you can have a case where you're better off not using VR, due to the fact that you wouldn't have taken HP damage in the first place. Letting armor have some effect alleviates this.

Originally Posted by The Benj

This is functionally VR coming before DR, in which case it may as well be Ablative DR instead.

I think innate Ablative DR still benefits from worn armor, however, so this doesn't quite work. Technically Force Field would prevent this, but it seems odd to have an Enhancement actually limit an ability.

Originally Posted by The Benj

Critical hits ignoring Vitality was a bad idea in d20. Replicating it in GURPS seems pointless.
Vitality Reserves are to protect you from the vicissitudes of random die rolls letting attacks slip past your defences.

I actually like the idea of a character with a massive VR still being possible to take out with a single critical hit, as it matches well with fiction (particularly video games, wherein someone with ridiculous HP can get one-shotted in a cut scene).

Originally Posted by The Benj

Vitality includes Fatigue. Being able to take the HP wound from overspending Fatigue on your Vitality is sufficient.
If you actually want them to directly cross over, you could cost it as having a VR and an ER of the same level as Alternate abilities, so spending from one spends from the other.

All solid ideas. I'll probably not allow spending of VR for fueling any sort of powers/abilities/whatever, I just thought it might be an option in others' games. I think having VR and ER as Alternate Abilities probably works best.

Originally Posted by The Benj

I think they were dumb there and would be dumb here. If you really insist on porting this, I'd say make it a Limitation on the VR.

I think a power source having technological methods of negations is worth, what, -5%? I'd say in settings with disruptors (or equivalent), -5% works if they're rare, -10% if they're moderately common. For disruptor-like Innate Attacks, however, that's still +300% Cosmic.

Originally Posted by The Benj

Vitality partly represents the luck and cinematic nick-of-time awareness that prevents you being punked by surprise attacks.
It sounds like what you really want is ... not Vitality.

I like the mechanics of Vitality better than Luck or similar options, so I'd prefer to use it. And in fiction even the most competent warriors can occasionally get dropped by dastardly sneak attacks, so I'd like to maintain that.

Originally Posted by The Benj

GURPS healing is already quite slow. For the VR, take Regeneration: Vitality only.

I figured that would probably be the way to work it out. I might just set it as any time. I'm probably going to use a slight variant of lwcamp's Semi-Cumulative Wounding System for HP, and have most things like healing potions/medicines/salves/spells typically only work on VR, rather than on wounds.

Originally Posted by The Benj

Sounds needlessly fiddly.

Probably, yeah.

[Varyon]

I've given the idea some thought, and I think what may work out best is to simply apply everything I've listed above (half DR from armor, no VP against crits, technology exists that can ignore VP, and VP requires partial detection to apply against sneak attacks) and charge [0.5]/level (making all of the above -75% in Limitations, which may be a bit high but probably not by too terribly much).

Rather than having character point distribution cap VP, I think it will work out better if I have it give free VP, with a cap of probably around 2x (so if a character has 10 VP for free, they can buy up to an additional 10). It may be possible to buy down VP (for [-1] every 2 VP), either fully or down to half. Rather than using the previous idea, I think I'll go with getting a free VP for every [15] in Combat Skills/Advantages* and [30] in Support Skills/Advantages. Characters also get half their HP in VP, and get VP equal to 1/50th of their point total (round down).

As an example, the sample boarder Obadiah from GURPS Supporting Cast: Age of Sail Pirate Crew has [15] in Combat, [148] in Support. He has 17 HP and is a 100 point character (he has [-85] in Disadvantages!). That gives him a starting VP of 1 (combat) + 4 (support) + 8 (HP) + 2 (point total), for a total of 15. Of course, he's only [2] off from an additional +1 from his Support traits, and his odd HP would give him an additional 0.5 VP, so giving him 16 VP probably wouldn't be uncalled for**. He can therefore have up to 30 (or 32 if letting him start with 16) VP.
Obadiah's captain, Alan Cutler, instead only has [6] in Combat and [123] in Support. He has 10 HP and is a 150 point character. That gives him 0+4+5+3=12 VP. That sets his cap as 24 VP.
The sample ship's boy, Will Deakin, has [2] in Combat and [105] in Support. He has 10 HP and is a 100 point character. That gives him 0+3+5+2=10 VP. His cap is 20 VP.


*Combat Skills/Advantages are those with a direct impact on melee combat - melee weapon skills mostly. Other traits that are clearly "Bash other guy in melee" style (a melee IA, possibly) would also qualify. Support Skills/Advantages cover defensive traits (Shield skill, Combat Reflexes, etc), set-up traits (Stealth skill and the like), ranged combat traits, and points spent on primary attributes (some secondaries, like lifting/striking ST, Basic Speed, etc, may also qualify).
Disadvantages that directly interfere with combat (Combat Paralysis) might give a malus to VP, and buying down traits that normally grant VP should do the same (so [-5] to Basic Speed should drop total character points spent on Support).

**To insure things are fair, you may instead want to multiply the points invested in all Combat traits by 10/3 and all Support by 5/3, and multiply HP by 25. Add these to the character's point total, and divide everything by 50 (round down) to determine number of VP. For Obadiah, that's (50+246.67+425+100=821.67)/50=16.