What GURPS needs... now

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

That isn't the answer I give. Because that isn't why I play GURPS.

My answer is (it's a very personal answer*): Because I can make Howard's Conan[1], Lieber's The Grey Mouser[2], or the Heartbow Wielder[3] without going to a million different supplements or 'tweaking' the rules. I just need this one book (and then I pat the Characters book).

That answer was a very good one when there was few generic universal roleplaying games around. But now, there are dozens. And several of them are much more attractive for newcomers than GURPS.

Why?

That is a true question, not a rhetoric one. GURPS qualities are just amazing. We wouldn't play it, and none of us would spend so much time on that thread if we weren't convinced about that. So, why are those amazing qualities not obvious to anyone around. What has been missed?

[knarf]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Interesting. Because for me GURPS character creation is one of the highlights of GURPS for me. I love it. A lot.

And I find GURPS character creation pretty smooth and easy. Way easier and more intuitive than Shadowrun 5e, for example.

Now, I don't tend to run Supers, so that might be part of it. But character creation has never been a issue for me. Do I do a character creation session? Depends, I'll either do it one-on-one or group depending on the campaign conceit.

But, that Session 0 has become so crucial to making sure everyone is on the same page, we have the same expectations. Doing it makes the subsequent campaign so much better. It has become so crucial that I do it regardless of the system I'm running.

I find the idea of a "Session 0" very useful as well. Even if the system isn't as crunchy as GURPS, taking the time to make sure that everyone knows what the campaign is about and make sure that their character fits the campaign and the party is a very good thing.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by knarf

No. I distinctly remember it being Ken Hite and it looked at how games like D&D and CoC were able to sell adventures because of their strongly defined core activity.

Having a strongly defined core activity and having a universal game system may be incompatible goals.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Having a strongly defined core activity and having a universal game system may be incompatible goals.

For some of that time CoC was supported by a universal system. I don't see any obstacle to campaign frames in GURPS having a strongly defined core activity. Both the Dungeon Fantasy and Monster Hunters lines have one, and Madness Dossier is a setting with a built-in core activity.

Originally Posted by Gollum

That is a true question, not a rhetoric one. GURPS qualities are just amazing. We wouldn't play it, and none of us would spend so much time on that thread if we weren't convinced about that. So, why are those amazing qualities not obvious to anyone around. What has been missed?

Firstly, I don't see anyone playing those other universal games much either. The market is still dominated by D&D and PFRPG, neither are universal games.

Secondly, compared to Fate and other newer universal games, GURPS is very old-fashioned, fiddly, and detail-oriented. People who want a more abstract experience aren't likely to be attracted to it.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Having a strongly defined core activity and having a universal game system may be incompatible goals.

In the main game system that is probably true. In worldbooks and campaign books that is not necessarily the case. To the extent that some GURPS worldbooks seemed kind of blah it may have been because they were written much like the main book - as generic treatises on the subject instead of as a game to be played. Even many of the GURPS adventures were written in such a way as to be utterly generic, avoiding any tie-ins to the worlds they were tangentially set on.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Gollum

That answer was a very good one when there was few generic universal roleplaying games around. But now, there are dozens.

I would contend that, going by the definitions in the introduction to the GURPS Basic Set, there are very few generic, universal role-playing systems.

There are a number of universal role-playing systems, which are systems where you can set a game in any setting you'd like. But in a game that is, say, cinematic and abstract, your games are likely to be universally cinematic and abstract. If you want play that game detailed and realistic, you're going to have to make up the rules yourself.

GURPS is different in that it uses generic rules, which can be turned on and off for any setting because they are all compatible with any setting. My cinematic, abstract fantasy game is using the same rules as your realistic, detailed space game, just in a different arrangement. You could conceivably erect a portal allowing two-way travel between our games and not have to convert a single thing. It's all the same game.

Back when it was invented, GURPS was in many ways a reaction to the lack of detail and customization in D&D and similar games. Nowadays GURPS is an excellent reaction to the current trend of metagaming novelty rules. It still has a purpose.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

I would contend that, going by the definitions in the introduction to the GURPS Basic Set, there are very few generic, universal role-playing systems.

If you interpret it liberally enough for GURPS to qualify, there are a bunch. All generic systems run into a square peg/round hole problem for certain styles or settings, but GURPS is no exception to that.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

I would contend that, going by the definitions in the introduction to the GURPS Basic Set, there are very few generic, universal role-playing systems.

There are a number of universal role-playing systems, which are systems where you can set a game in any setting you'd like. But in a game that is, say, cinematic and abstract, your games are likely to be universally cinematic and abstract. If you want play that game detailed and realistic, you're going to have to make up the rules yourself.

GURPS is different in that it uses generic rules, which can be turned on and off for any setting because they are all compatible with any setting. My cinematic, abstract fantasy game is using the same rules as your realistic, detailed space game, just in a different arrangement. You could conceivably erect a portal allowing two-way travel between our games and not have to convert a single thing. It's all the same game.

Back when it was invented, GURPS was in many ways a reaction to the lack of detail and customization in D&D and similar games. Nowadays GURPS is an excellent reaction to the current trend of metagaming novelty rules. It still has a purpose.

I suddenly had an idea. And your answer goes in that direction.

Instead of searching "what GURPS needs ... now" by comparison with other roleplaying games (as I, and some other posters, tried to do it), why not reversing the problem and wondering ...

What are the main qualities of GURPS and how to better show them.

Even if we just consider other universal roleplaying games, GURPS is only one possibility among many others.

So, what could make people choose GURPS instead of BRP, for instance. Or, at least, what could make them know for sure what GURPS really proposes that BRP doesn't.

What sort of book, publicity, manner of presenting the game to show GURPS best features do we need?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gollum

What sort of book, publicity, manner of presenting the game to show GURPS best features do we need?

Realistic contemporary armed combat between mundane people isn't actually a very appealing kind of game for most players, even if it is where GURPS is best.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Firstly, I don't see anyone playing those other universal games much either. The market is still dominated by D&D and PFRPG, neither are universal games.

Sure. But Savage Worlds and Fate, for instance, still sound to be more perennial than GURPS (at least, for the moment). They are translated in French, attract a lot of people here, while GURPS is more perceived as repellent. And its translation was a flop.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Secondly, compared to Fate and other newer universal games, GURPS is very old-fashioned, fiddly, and detail-oriented. People who want a more abstract experience aren't likely to be attracted to it.

Precisely. It's detailed-oriented feature could attract people. Some players like more abstract experience but some other don't. A lot of other roleplaying games are very detailed.