What GURPS needs... now

[JMason]

Some time ago, there was a conversation (or a dozen) that had suggested that GURPS needed an introductory product like a boxed set. And behold, SJGames created just that! I, like many others, am eagerly waiting the DFRPG Boxed Set to arrive (and to see how well it does), but a few recent discussions here and elsewhere started getting me thinking about what else GURPS needs.

(I get that SJG is probably in a "holding pattern" as far as new products go, but hey, its never too early to talk about the future.)

One thing that I have noticed from quite a few people recently, is reflecting on how the 3rd edition basic set was more manageable. The 4th edition basic set is more expensive, more dense, and can be hard to parse for someone new. DFRPG is one solution to this, but gamers that are looking for a great universal system might skip a worked genre game.

There has been talk of reworking GURPS Lite (4th edition) since... well for a long time! I think Lite 4th is good... but the lack of magic and many other options makes it feel less than... "universal". And arguing that a free introductory product needs to eat away at staff time, is a hard pill to swallow.

So, my thoughts are GURPS needs a "Basic Set" that lives up to that name. Something more akin to Savage World's "Explorer Edition". A product with a price tag on it, with enough character traits to cover most genres, and the core rules without all the optional stuff.

I'd love to see a softcover "trade paperback" sized book for under $20 (a $10 book like SWEX would also be great!). Something like this would make it a lot easier to guide new folks to GURPS.

[Phantasm]

I'd say that GURPS needs more than Dungeon Fantasy in order to set it apart from the various D&D clones out there. A few suggestions:

A GURPS Monster Hunters boxed set, including a booklet consisting of RPM rituals, plus a bunch of adventure seeds.

A GURPS Space Opera And Mecha boxed set, including a stripped-down version of Spaceships designed for quickly putting together space opera type spacecraft, starfighters and capital ships alike. Leave aside the options that aren't standard space opera fare.

Come to think of it, I'd love to see Mailanka's Psi-Wars done up as a hardcover book, but I'm not sure it's "needed".

[David Johansen]

I've been wanting something like that for years and years. My own thought was a series of GURPS Lite supplements but I can see how that might compete with existing products and undermine sales. I'm hoping Dungeon Fantasy is a success. I'm doing what I can to help it be a success. But I really think a core book that cuts out all the cinematic and non-mundane stuff would be a great resource for new players and GMs.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

But I really think a core book that cuts out all the cinematic and non-mundane stuff would be a great resource for new players and GMs.

I feel exactly the same way about a GURPS book that cuts out all the uberdetailed combat rules and rosters of basically identical weapons.

Which is why I love that the game is modular and you can take what you want and ignore the rest.

[JMason]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

I feel exactly the same way about a GURPS book that cuts out all the uberdetailed combat rules and rosters of basically identical weapons.

Which is why I love that the game is modular and you can take what you want and ignore the rest.

Oh, I certainly agree with this. But I think there are plenty of folks that prefer staring with a "base line" and building up. IMO, Basic Set for 4th edition is so modular, and so filled with options that it can be hard to establish what the "base line" is.

And I also think there are a lot of gamers that are turned off by the idea of spending $85 on two big dense books, just to ignore the 90% you aren't going to use.

I think an inexpensive "pocket edition", that gives a taste of the rules, but then points the way to Basic Set for the full enchilada... or to DFRPG for a worked example, could do a lot to get new folks into GURPS.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by JMason

And I also think there are a lot of gamers that are turned off by the idea of spending $85 on two big dense books, just to ignore the 90% you aren't going to use.

D&D also asks you to spend $90 on two big books just to play. Sure, you'll probably be using a lot of those books, but all you can ever play with them is D&D.

Originally Posted by JMason

I think an inexpensive "pocket edition", that gives a taste of the rules, but then points the way to Basic Set for the full enchilada... or to DFRPG for a worked example, could do a lot to get new folks into GURPS.

What would you cut out? What would you put into a cut-down product to try to drive interest in GURPS? Anything you did would have to be a narrow-focus book, which would require multiple books to get decent penetration into the market.

Additional boxed sets, in the vein of DFRPG is a good start, in general. But, beyond that, I think a "pocket edition" would be too specific to actually be much help.

[David Johansen]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

I feel exactly the same way about a GURPS book that cuts out all the uberdetailed combat rules and rosters of basically identical weapons.

Which is why I love that the game is modular and you can take what you want and ignore the rest.

Really, a lighter combat system is something that should have been implemented somewhere a long time ago. I love the detailed system but sometimes it's just too much.

I wonder if there's a way to handle penetration and damage type multipliers that hides them. I know from experience that it's one of those sticking points people have.

Like, maybe zombies just have extra hit points rather than a different multiplier. I suppose you could build the change in characters and set a points value.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

Really, a lighter combat system is something that should have been implemented somewhere a long time ago. I love the detailed system but sometimes it's just too much.

I wonder if there's a way to handle penetration and damage type multipliers that hides them. I know from experience that it's one of those sticking points people have.

Like, maybe zombies just have extra hit points rather than a different multiplier. I suppose you could build the change in characters and set a points value.

It is pretty easy to run games that generally only use a few modifiers. If the typical combat is a firefight with issued rifles by regular troops on both sides then pi is probably the only modifier that is typically going to come up.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

But I really think a core book that cuts out all the cinematic and non-mundane stuff would be a great resource for new players and GMs.

I would have no use for a book like that. I can't imagine many players, especially new players, would as well.

I could see the opposite being much more useful: something that ramps up the cinematic, and really pares down the mundane. Most of the players I've encountered don't want to play Papers and Paychecks, they want to do something amazing.

To Andrew's point, most of the players I've encountered would rather see GURPS combat simplified. Sure, a GM with all of the important bits memorized can speed combat right along, but, for new players . . . something simple is better than something complex.

And I'm of a mixed mind about identical weapons. But, he's probably right about that as well.

I'm another voter for the power of the modular system. There are lots of things we don't use when playing. There are, additionally, lots of things we bring in from various places. I like how, in general, swapping things in GURPS doesn't, automatically, break the system.

[sir_pudding]

A 4th Edition of GURPS Magic...