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Old 02-15-2012, 06:24 PM   #131
vitruvian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Unintentional slam suicide

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Originally Posted by Dammann View Post
Did the OP ever convince his GM that he intended a Shove, so that no actual damage occurred, only a knockback (of probably zero yards)?

I mean the main intent was to move that oak tree over the cliff, not to damage it directly by stiking with the whole body.
No, but Kromm pointed out some RAW that we were all missing that caps the damage at what he inflicts.
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:20 AM   #132
Mr Frost
 
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Default Re: Unintentional slam suicide

I'm still trying to process that His G.M. thought 20 dice {or for that matter , flying then the length of a suburban house} was even remotely realistic for what is basically running into a wall .

20 dice is exactly like being run over by a Humvee going 55 miles per hour .

I've run into a brick wall once {valuable childhood lesson about watching where you're going} which was attached quite firmly to an entire concrete and brick multi story building that could do a rather good impersonation of a monolith under the right circumstance and I don't remember it delivering the sort of damage I would expect from a 700 Nitro Express elephant gun nor forcing me to perform a 27 foot broadjump backwards .
In fact I'm pretty certain I survived .

If running into one delivered enough damage to kill a healthy adult human male more than 50% of the time , the government would make you purchance a licence to run . They're about to tax us for breathing Here in Australia so yes they would !

People regularly survive running into brick walls at full tilt .
Indeed , in the United States of America with a population of over 300 million people and quite a few million sturdy brick walls and similarly stubborn vertical surfaces I'd wager it happens at least once a day .
Either dying from it is rare or bricklayers have one hell of a conspiracy going .

Also : what Krom said .



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Old 02-16-2012, 02:46 AM   #133
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Default Re: Unintentional slam suicide

Yeah, I wondered that. I understand that playing by RAW makes for a more predictable game where players and GM can weigh risks, make reasonable risk assessments, etc. But it is all intended to simulate reality, and I have never felt bound by the rules such that I would roll 20 dice for something like that. It is just such a surprising result, unless the character was like headbutting the monster. Maybe. Even then, though...
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:49 AM   #134
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Default Re: Unintentional slam suicide

I've done stupid stuff as a GM, just because I'm applying the rules without thinking about the end result. Sometimes it takes a player to point out how stupid it is. I doubt it's all that uncommon.
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Old 02-16-2012, 03:19 AM   #135
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Default Re: Unintentional slam suicide

You're right, of course. I am likely guilty of being uncharitable here. There is often a point (sometimes during combat) where I have three or four players all asking simultaneously for some sort of adjudication, and I probably make the most mistakes at those times.
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Old 02-16-2012, 01:07 PM   #136
Ts_
 
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Default Re: Unintentional slam suicide

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Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
in point of fact mice tend to be less hurt by falls than humans tend to be less hurt by falls than horses or elephants
Yep, while I don't have reliable data on this, I also think this is true.

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Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
Of course, in current GURPS rules, the second applies, since HP are invariant in the equation, and that's true whether they are scaled quadratically or cubically with mass. Not sure correcting this would be worth the added complication, though...
Yep, I would also leave it at the current model, despite that it is not the most realistic.

The really tricky question, though, is how to figure out the movement of the involved people ... While this might not have to be some explicit formulae, guidelines for the GM would probably be useful.

How about some extreme cases first: Say, under normal humanocentric conditions you cannot move an opponent with 3 times your HP at all. This translates into 27 times the mass, which makes quite a difference in collisions and how the momentum is shared between the opponents, which seems to be (in elastic collisions) along the line of ownmass / sum of masses.

The slight inaccuracy could be described to the inelastic collision or mild resistance to being pushed from the opponent.

Regards
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:25 PM   #137
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Default Re: Unintentional slam suicide

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Originally Posted by Mr Frost View Post
Common Sense only costs 10 cp !
But you could use those 10 cp to buy off mundane instead. :)
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:51 PM   #138
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Default Re: Unintentional slam suicide

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None of those refer to the size or HP of the colliding subjects, just speed and net dice of damage.

Take a somewhat extreme example: A 50 HP giant turtle with Move 1 and a 1 HP super-mouse with Move 50. Assume both are moving at their Move. Super-Mouse slams the turtle from various angles.

In a head on collision slam, you use the total of both creatures Move: 51 yards. The turtle's slam damage is 26d (50*51/100). The mouse's slam damage is 1d-1 (1*51/100) - but the slower object (turtle, Move 1) cannot inflict more dice of damage than the faster one so that 26d is capped at 1d-1. Both deal 1d-1 to each other.

In a rear-end collision slam, the Move of the mouse minus the move of the turtle is used: 49 yards. The turtles slam damage is 25d, the mouses slam damage is 1d-2 - but the struck object (the turtle) cannot inflict more dice of damage than the striking one. Both deal 1d-2 to each other.

If the mouse t-bones the turtle, a side-on collision slam, just the Move of the mouse is used: 50 yards. The turtles slam damage is 25d, the mouses slam damage is 1d-1 - but the struck object (the turtle) cannot inflict more dice of damage than the striking one. Both deal 1d-1 to each other.

Turn it around so the turtle is doing the slamming:

In a head on collision slam, you use the total of both creatures Move: 51 yards. The turtle's slam damage is 26d (50*51/100). The mouse's slam damage is 1d-1 (1*51/100) - but the slower object (turtle, Move 1) cannot inflict more dice of damage than the faster one so that 26d is capped at 1d-1. Again, both deal 1d-1 to each other.

In a rear-end collision slam, the turtle can't slam the mouse because the mouse is moving at 50 and the result is a velocity of -49.

If the mouse t-bones the turtle, a side-on collision slam, just the Move of the turtle is used: 1 yard. The turtles slam damage is 1d-1, the mouses slam damage is 1d-3 (if you let 0.01 round up at all) - and the struck object (the mouse) cannot inflict more dice of damage than the striking one. The mouse deals 1d-3, the turtle deals 1d-1. The mouse is not the limiting condition on damage.

If the turtle slams into the mouse when it isn't moving, then the head-on collision rules don't apply - you actually apply the side-on rules, and the mouse deals 1d-3, the turtle deals 1d-1. The mouse is again not the limiting condition on damage.
GURPS should be renamed GHCURPS: Generic, Hilariously-Complicated Universal Role-Playing System.

Wouldn't have it any other way!

Let's take a look at rules just for jumping next!

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=64736

Glorious! XD
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