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Old 03-13-2009, 06:07 AM   #11
Gollum
 
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

It may be too late for this answer. You may have already played this adventure and then, my post will be useless... But perhaps not. See for yourself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodlessRose
I'm planning a GURPS Call of Cthulhu game, set in the modern day. (Or possibly 1920s, but I'm not much of a history buff.)
Very good idea! I played it several times, both wiht GURPS 3 and 4, and it worked very well. Every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodlessRose
1) Power level: I'm leaning toward 100 point characters, on the theory that will give a sort of classic CoC feel - exceptional, but not larger-than-life heroes. I also plan to uncouple Will and Per from IQ, and charge the full 20 points per level for IQ. Which means characters will tend to cost a little more than by RAW, so 100 points might be more restrictive than I think. Any thoughts?
100 points is the power level I use for beginning Cthulhu investigators. Cthulhu's world is very dangerous, so the players need some quite good attributes and skills - in the Basic Roleplaying System, they have high enough attributes: 11.5 on average. And 100 points isn't too much. The characters remains quite ordinary humans... As long as the players don't put everything in only one attribute or skill, of course.

But I never uncoupled Will or Perception from Intelligence. Investigators are ordinary humans and so, I don't see why it could be usefull...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodlessRose
2) I haven't played a game with Mythos/Sanity-Blasting Fright Checks yet, but the rules seem a little harsh. Won't characters often wind up stunned and helpless as The Bad Thing comes to eat them? (I guess that's sort of the point, but still...)
I never used Cthlhupunk sanity rules. I find the Basic Set rules sufficient to do the job, and to do it very well - I fully do agree with David Johnston2, here.

Of course, cthulhean creatures are supposed to be much more frightening than "ordinary" monsters, because they don't correspond to our point of view about the reality... And with the Basic Roleplaying System rules, the characters lose more and more sanity... But Cthulhu investigators are very easy to create (these are disposable characters) while a GURPS character requires much more time (it is a fine-crafted character). And the fact of accumulating more and more disadvantages is frightening enough for the player. It gives him the feeling that his character becomes more and more silly...

For the fright check penalty, I just look at the type of dice rolled in the original scenario:
  • 1 point gives +0
  • 1d2 gives -1
  • 1d4 gives -2
  • 1d6 gives -3
  • 1d8 (Walter Corbitt) gives -4
  • 1d10 gives -5
  • 1d12 gives -6
  • Etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GodlessRose
3) Mythos Awareness: In 4e, this would be Detect with Vague, Uncontrollable, and Unconscious Only, right?
4) The Innsmouth Look: My best guess is in 4e, this would be Short Lifespan with Self-Destruct and Distinctive Features, plus a zero-point feature that if the character "dies of old age" he becomes a Deep One NPC. Is there a better way to model it?
You don't have to bother with this. At least, not to play The Haunted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodlessRose
5) In CthulhuPunk, characters must make special Mythos Fright Checks per each level of Mythos Lore gained, even if the skill is a default to Occultism (it defaults at -12). But unless I missed something, it doesn't specify at what level of skill the rolls start. I'm guessing they start at skill 3. So a character with IQ 13 who spends 1 point on Hidden Lore (Cthulhu) would have to make 10 rolls...
In my games, Cthulhu Mythos is just a IQ-based hard skill. It doesn't have any default. And the character doesn't have any penalty when he improves this skill. Again, the life of an investigator is dangerous enough to make him become crazy too easily. With a disposable rolled character, no matter. But with a detailed fine-crafted character, it is not a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodlessRose
6) In BRP CoC, characters can acquire Cthulhu Mythos skill involuntarily, as a result of failed sanity rolls.
In my games, they can't. The only way to improve Cthulhu Mythos is to study it. Or to put some earned character points in it, at the end of an adventure - when there is a good justification for that (becoming crazy during a while can be a good justification).

For learning Cthulhu Mythos, my rule is quite different from the one written in Cthulhupunk. The books are not rated in numbers like +2 or +5 in the skill, but in a number of character points that they can bring to the character.

A book described as giving +10% in a scenario, for instance, gives 8 character points (+2, to grade it out of 20 rather than out of 100, and x 4 because a +1 in a GURPS skill requires 4 character points).

Note that the character has to study enough time to earn these character points (I use the usual GURPS rule here: Improvement Through Study).

Oh! I forgot to tell. I don't use the conversion rules given in Cthulhupunk. Since I like to be able to convert characters or monsters during the game, I use simplified rules...

GURPS ST = Cthulhu STR
GURPS DX = Cthulhu DEX
GURPS IQ = (Cthulhu INT + Cthulhu EDU)/2
GURPS HT = Cthulhu CON

GURPS HP = GURPS ST
GURPS Move = Cthulhu Move
Etc.

And, for the skill, I just consider that...
  • 25% is amateur = 10 in GURPS terms.
  • 50% is good professional = 14 in GURPS terms.
  • 75% is good expert = 18 in GURPS terms.
It's fast and easy to do it in my head. And I don't translate the whole NPC. Just the stats I need, as I need it.

Last edited by Gollum; 03-13-2009 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:36 AM   #12
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Gollum - I like the quick conversion rules, especially the set skill % = skill level, that's quicker than the Cthulhupunk rules.

Because I see the CoC setting to be pretty gritty & realistic, I would also adjust most published scenario NPC Ability Scores, there tends to be way too many NPC Attributes in the 14-20 range in CoC scenarios. At least for people, halve the number of points over or under 10. Examples: CoC Str 18 becomes GURPS Str 14, CoC Dex 16 becomes GURPS Dex 13, etc.
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amra
Because I see the CoC setting to be pretty gritty & realistic, I would also adjust most published scenario NPC Ability Scores, there tends to be way too many NPC Attributes in the 14-20 range in CoC scenarios.
Yes, you're right. I noticed it too. But I never found it was a problem since, as said above, I make conversion during the adventure and, so, I rarely use NPC's attributes (apart from Health/Constitution, of course). Most often, success rolls are made against a skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amra
At least for people, halve the number of points over or under 10. Examples: CoC Str 18 becomes GURPS Str 14, CoC Dex 16 becomes GURPS Dex 13, etc.
This is a very good idea. Thanks for it.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Sorry for taking so long to reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Schreck
A long time ago, I started a thread with various 4e write-ups of cthulhoid horrors. Maybe there's something you can use for your campaign.

Link here: Happy Halloween! Cthulhoid creatures for 4e
Thanks for the link. I had missed that. The bit about Cthulhu having Telesend got me thinking. Now I'm not sure the Mythos Awareness Advantage should even exist, since the dream revelations about the Mythos could all be due to the abilities of Mythos creatures.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller
Have you considered converting an average BRP-CoC PC and finding the cp value?
Actually, no. Thanks for suggesting that.

Assuming only the basic 6e character creation rules, median Characteristic rolls, and mean wealth, and ignoring Characteristics that have no clear parallel in GURPS, Joe Average Investigator works out to:

ST 10.5 [5]
DX 10.5 [10]
IQ 13 [60]
HT 10.5 [5]
Will 10.5 [-12.5]
Very Wealthy [30]
Average Appearance, no Disadvantages

Skills are a problem, though. Joe gets 270 occupation points and 130 personal interest, but the value in GURPS will vary wildly depending on how they are spent. And some BRP skills are Advantages or Secondary Attributes in GURPS, to complicate matters. But if we arbitrarily assume 32.5 points in skills (reasonable, I think), then the total comes to 130 points.

But CthulhuPunk recommends that Intelligence scores be reduced by 2, since they are somewhat inflated in BRP. Which brings the total down to a neat 100 points.

On the other hand, stats in the two systems are not functionally equivalent, so it isn't clear what this exercise proves. (Except that I have too much free time, perhaps.) And the value of the PCs from my BRP campaigns are considerably higher, since I am permissive with the dice. (I allow low stats to be re-rolled, stats to be re-arranged, and points traded to adjust wealth scores. I hate random character creation systems, so I make it easy for people to get a character close to what they want.) It's interesting, though.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
It may be too late for this answer. You may have already played this adventure and then, my post will be useless... But perhaps not. See for yourself...
Actually, the game is a couple weeks away. So I have time to mull over the feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
100 points is the power level I use for beginning Cthulhu investigators. Cthulhu's world is very dangerous, so the players need some quite good attributes and skills - in the Basic Roleplaying System, they have high enough attributes: 11.5 on average. And 100 points isn't too much. The characters remains quite ordinary humans... As long as the players don't put everything in only one attribute or skill, of course.

But I never uncoupled Will or Perception from Intelligence. Investigators are ordinary humans and so, I don't see why it could be usefull...
That is more for consistency than anything else. I like to use the same house rules across campaigns. Do you think it will cause problems? Perhaps I should up the points to 125...

In case it is relevant, I also use the rule that Speed (but not Move or Dodge) is based on (IQ+DX)/4, and costs 1 cp per .25.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
You don't have to bother with this. At least, not to play The Haunted.
True. I just like to clarify all the character creation options before I start anything.

And thanks for the other info, too.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amra
Because I see the CoC setting to be pretty gritty & realistic, I would also adjust most published scenario NPC Ability Scores, there tends to be way too many NPC Attributes in the 14-20 range in CoC scenarios. At least for people, halve the number of points over or under 10. Examples: CoC Str 18 becomes GURPS Str 14, CoC Dex 16 becomes GURPS Dex 13, etc.
I was also thinking of compressing the Attributes, though for a different reason. BRP "Characteristics" don't have the same impact on play as GURPS Attributes.
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodlessRose
I was also thinking of compressing the Attributes, though for a different reason. BRP "Characteristics" don't have the same impact on play as GURPS Attributes.
Yes.

The most important reason is that, in Call of Cthulhu, attributes and stats are not linked. No matter how high is your DEX, it won't give you any bonus to swing a sword, climb a wall or use a gun. In GURPS, this is very different: 4 CP in a skill doesn't give the same level if the attribute on which it is based is 10, 12 or 16.
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodlessRose
That is more for consistency than anything else. I like to use the same house rules across campaigns. Do you think it will cause problems? Perhaps I should up the points to 125...
No, to my mind, your house rules won't cause any problem. And 75 to 125 gives skilled enough characters to confront the Mythos. So, since 100 points is a round number, don't change it.

Personally, I don't like to uncouple Per or Will from IQ. And I don't believe that introducing IQ in the Basic speed is necessary. Indeed, to my mind, there already is some perception in the DX attribute (the hand-eyes coordination).

Actually, I consider the four basic attributes as following - I didn't find it alone; the idea comes from a friend, on a french GURPS forum...

DX is the general bodily adaptation, which requires some perception, because nobody can adapt his body to something he doesn't perceive. That is why almost every physical skill is based on DX, even when it doesn't require acrobatic moves... Driving or Gun, for instance, rarely require to be especially flexible or quick. They above all require to be vigilant. And they are still DX-based skill.

IQ is the general mental adaptation, which also requires some perception. Nobody can adapt his mind to something he doesn't perceive. That is why almost every mental skill is based on IQ, even when it doesn't require a lot of logical reasoning. Musical instrument and Artist are IQ-based skill, even if they require more perception and intuition than pure brain-power.

Strength is external energy, i.e. muscle-power. And, since muscles are heavy and bulky, it also represents HP. No matter how well trained a rat is, he won't ever be as strong and able to absorb damage as an elephant.

Health is the internal energy. Not only the physical one but also the mental one (the grit). That is why there is no mental fatigue in GURPS. Concentrating, for a wizard for instance, cost the same FP than running or moving heavy weights.

Now, what about pure perception rolls? It is the ability to notice something, which requires accurate senses, of course, but which also require to be vigilant, open minded to the surroundings. That is why perception rolls are based on mind, i.e. IQ in GURPS terms.

And what about will rolls? Here again, it has more to do with IQ than with something else. Understanding that someone is trying to deceive you helps you to resist him (seduction, hypnotism...). And the statistics show that people with a higher Intellectual Quotient best resist to traumas due to the war and the likes.

So, I find that linking Per and Will to IQ is a very good think. But, of course, it is just a point of view. Do as you like for your games.

Last edited by Gollum; 03-15-2009 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
For the fright check penalty, I just look at the type of dice rolled in the original scenario:
  • 1 point gives +0
  • 1d2 gives -1
  • 1d4 gives -2
  • 1d6 gives -3
  • 1d8 (Walter Corbitt) gives -4
  • 1d10 gives -5
  • 1d12 gives -6
  • Etc.
I like this. After 1, the penalties equal the median roll, rounded down. But what about 5d10 (Ubbo-Sathla) or 1d100 (Cthulhu)? If we use the average roll as the fright check penalty, then these would be even harsher than in CthulhuPunk.
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