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Old 05-06-2012, 04:43 AM   #21
OldSam
 
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

In my own games I didn't have problems with an occasional tiny character (like a Pixie in DF), overall it worked well. I also had a campaign with a whole group of small creatures - the GULLIVER expansion for GURPS can be quite helpful for something like that.


GURPS is very good in realistic settings like modern world action or mystery games and it's also my favorite system for medieval fantasy, because of the great flexibility for characters, the detailed and fast combat system with many tactical options and the availability of several cool magic systems fitting different styles.

Last edited by OldSam; 05-06-2012 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:15 AM   #22
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
I think defining what GURPS does well by describing what it does not is confusing, since not everybody has the same idea what 'everything else' would be. Especially in a thread which asks what GURPS does well.
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Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
Agreed. There was already a recent thread discussing the settings GURPS has difficulty with. I think we could do well to further explore its strengths here.
I think a positive answer is a lot more difficult. GURPS can do everything else, pretty much. Whether it does so "well" is subjective.

IME it does so better than any other universal system I've played.

Anyway, I'll attempt to do so:

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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius View Post
With that said, I'd like to know, what genres, game styles, or modes of play does GURPS lend itself to?
I'd say that GURPS' comfort zone is action-adventure fiction on a human scale. The farther you get from that center point, the more problems you may have, but that wiggle room is conceptually vast.
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Like, what sorts of campaigns and one-shots usually jump into your mind when you're thinking of using GURPS?
I find that all I've been really interested in running lately is GURPS (for no particular reason; I've just wanted to run GURPS) and so my last few sets of prospective campaigns were largely GURPS games: 2007; 2010; 2012
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Or put another way, when you think about X genre, why would you choose GURPS for it?
  1. I'm extremely familiar with the system.
  2. The combat system is much less abstract than most other RPGs, which lends itself well to the kinds of tense and detailed fights I prefer.
  3. The system is mostly grounded in either reality or in the sort of internally consistent adventure fiction that has a sense of verisimilitude. This makes it easy to to apply to rules to novel situations, and to improvise rulings based on logic.
  4. The character generation system is highly detailed and encourages characterization.
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Originally Posted by OldSam View Post
In my own games I didn't have problems with an occasional tiny character (like a Pixie in DF),
DF Pixies have racial ST 5! I'm talking about characters that wouldn't even rate ST 1 such as mice-sized, insect-sized, bacteria-sized, all the way down to lepton-sized PCs*.
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the GULLIVER expansion for GURPS can be quite helpful for something like that.
Note that GULLIVER is tbone's fan project, it's not actually RAW, but rather a fairly sophisticated set of house rules.

*Although it would be interesting to run a game where you can't actually say where your character is exactly, but only how likely it is to be. :)
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

One of my favorite things about GURPS is that it only rarely forces you to take abilities that you don't want.

I prefer to start with a blank slate and build from that, rather than using a level-based system like Dungeons & Dragons where I have to give the character the abilities the system says he has to have. You can make a character who can swing a sword without having him able to survive a thunderbolt from Zeus, or the other way around.

Now, GURPS isn't perfect here. Sometimes it heavily incentivizes you to take package deals where you might get more than you want, like with IQ or DX or Unkillable 2. But you can try to work around those with things like Talents or Incompetence quirks or limitations on advantages. On the other hand, due to the skill pricing, Talents are a big part of the problem as well. Why dump forty points into Philosophy when I can spend a few more points to raise five other skills with a Talent?

But those issues are minor when compared to the complete lack of freedom in level-based systems.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
I would add "games which run on dramatic necessity/the rule of cool". I mean, you CAN run games like that using GURPS, I just think there's other game engines that better handle "what would totally be awesome if it happened right now" instead of "what would likely happen right now".
The easiest way to handle this in GURPS is probably to use the Buying Success rule (p. B347) and either stipulate that it can only be used for coolness, or else have the GM refund CPs spent on this for the most awesome uses in any given session.
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:27 AM   #25
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius View Post
Let me explain a little:

As I've said on other forums, I've got a case where I'm looking to change how my group plays - to become more sandboxy and the like, and one of the systems I'm considering is GURPS. I've run GURPS 4e in the past, so I've experience with it, but it was also in the past that I've sometimes used systems for things that they weren't made for.

With that said, I'd like to know, what genres, game styles, or modes of play does GURPS lend itself to? Like, what sorts of campaigns and one-shots usually jump into your mind when you're thinking of using GURPS? Or put another way, when you think about X genre, why would you choose GURPS for it?
There is one question that you didn't ask, but which can also help you to make your choice:

How does GURPS do it?

Indeed, as it has been said above, GURPS can handle anything (except a few exception, maybe). It is really a universal (any game world you want) and generic (in any genre you like) role playing game.

Now, there are several other universal and generic role playing games... So, what makes GURPS different?

First, as it has been said above, GURPS emphasizes realism - contrary to other role playing games which are much more heroic. You can play a heroic GURPS campaign, but you will have to add some optional rules (included in the Basic Set) to do so. In GURPS, without hte heroic options, one bullet can kill any warrior, no matter how experienced he is...
So, if you want to run realistic, heroic and super heroic campaigns, GURPS is made for you. But if you want to play exclusively in heroic and super heroic genres, GURPS may not be the best choice...
Second, GURPS is as detailed as you want. You can play it with very few rules, to make things fast and simple, but you can also dozens of very specific rules. For the character creation (advantages, disadvantages, modified advantages and disadvantages with enhancements and limitations, quirks, perks, specializations, techniques...) and also during play (hit locations, bleeding, harsh and realistic options...).
So, if you like very detail rules from time to time (they all are optional), GURPS is made for you. But if you hate detailed rules and want all your games to be very light, it may not be the better choice...
Finally GURPS is a game in which the player has a lot of choice to make. During his character's creation (he is free to create exactly the character he wants to play without the least restriction, except the point total) but also during the game. In GURPS, you never content yourself to say "I hit him with my sword." You have to choose a maneuver (attack, all-out attack, deceptive attack?" and to describe it with some detail: a swinging or a thrusting blow? As if you were your character, in the situation described by the GM... And doing it is very important: choosing the wrong maneuver at the wrong moment can make your character lose the combat, or even the life... Brief, in GURPS, the players choices are as important as their characters' abilities, and have as much importance on the result...

Some people like that! They can feel what feel their character and are free to do exactly what they would do if they were there in his place... But some players hate that! They want a more narrative manner of playing. They just want to describe vaguely their action and let the dice, and their character's ability, govern the result. After all, they may be right: if their warrior is a much better in the Sword skill than they are, he must be able to make all these maneuver choices much better than they can do it... That is why these players like more narrative and less detailed games.
So, as you can see, the question is not really what can GURPS do... It is: do you like how GURPS do it, an do your players also like it?
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

Agreed on the nunhumaoind thing as well. As you drift from a nonhumanoid body type a lot of the combat starts to get wonky.
However it still handles it better then any other system I have played.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:00 AM   #27
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

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The easiest way to handle this in GURPS is probably to use the Buying Success rule (p. B347) and either stipulate that it can only be used for coolness, or else have the GM refund CPs spent on this for the most awesome uses in any given session.
You can kludge together something that kinda works. It's just not anywhere near as seamless as something that dpesn't start from a base of "mostly realistic adventure fiction".
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:12 AM   #28
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

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Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos View Post
Gurps focus on realism, so, the game is very good for someone tired of level 10 barbarians having more HP than a wall.
I would disagree with a focus on "realism." While it is far more realistic than most systems, it's representation of reality can be arguable. I would call it a focus on "literalism."

GURPS takes a far more literal approach than most other games. So, in my experience, players can translate what they want to do into how the system works without having to reconcile it with countless abstracted meta-rules that serve no greater purpose than to create a balanced playing field. There are few exceptions to what a character can do beyond what the normal human brain would assume is possible anyway. Loss of hit points is an actual injury, a skill is actually the ability to do something, etc.

For example:

Player: Can I pick up that gun?
GM: Sure.
Player: Can I fire it?
GM: Sure.
Player: I only have one shot at this before he attacks my friend. Can I aim for the head?
GM: No.
Player: How can I take him down quickly?
GM: Do enough damage to kill him in one shot.
Player: Is that possible?
GM: No.
Player: What if I shoot him in the leg? Would that at least slow him down?
GM: No.
Player: So all I can do is attack him?
GM: Yes. Do it!

Compared to:

Player: Can I pick up that gun?
GM: Sure.
Player: Can I fire it?
GM: Sure.
Player: I only have one shot at this before he attacks my friend. Can I aim for the head?
GM: It'll be tough, but sure.
Player: Will that do enough damage to kill him in one shot?
GM: Probably, but consider the difficulty of the shot. You'll probably miss. You might want to aim for a location that will be easier to hit, but will cause enough pain to stop him in his tracks.
Player: The leg? It won't kill him, but he won't be advancing anymore.
GM: Yes. Do it!

This same literal approach has advantages in character creation too. No need to find the class that sort-of, kind-of fits you character concept if you multi-class 4 times and wait until your 8th level. If you want to be "that" you just build "that."

Sure, these points could be argued as "more realistic," but I think that perspective on realism can be somewhat subjective and can get us mired in debates that, frankly, miss the point. I think any realism we see tends to be coincidental to the literal approach.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:21 AM   #29
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

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Sure, these points could be argued as "more realistic," but I think that perspective on realism can be somewhat subjective and can get us mired in debates that, frankly, miss the point. I think any realism we see tends to be coincidental to the literal approach.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "literalism". If you mean something along the lines of "simulationist" I wouldn't disagree. In the example you gave, the first exchange is from a more abstract system, where HP loss represents a gradual sapping of the resources (health, fatigue, luck, etc) which protect a character from harm - ie, declaring an attack and rolling damage doesn't tell you much about what kind of attack it is. In GURPS, the player starts with exactly what sort of action they're attempting; the dice tell them whether they are successful, and what the actual effect is - not a gradual depletion of an abstract resource, but a flesh-and-blood injury with precise consequences. There's still a lot of abstraction involved (otherwise you'd need a computer to run it) but the picture it paints at the end is a lot more complete.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:55 AM   #30
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Default Re: What does GURPS 4e do well?

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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "literalism". If you mean something along the lines of "simulationist" I wouldn't disagree.
Sure. I just prefer the term literalism because "simulation" still implies an inherent realism. I've seen entire sessions grind to a halt where players nit-pick over the realism of this rule or that (in ALL systems). While GURPS sacrifices realism quite often for the sake or playability and a more dramatic reality, folks will go to the mat to argue what is real and what is not.

A literal approach does not have to be realistic. It simply needs to follow a somewhat transparent line of cause and effect. That's the most important thing, I think, and what GURPS does best over all other things. The player doesn't need to learn how to "game the system" in order to figure out how to do something they feel is "in character" or simply a logical course of action. They just say what you want to do in plain terms and the GM tells them how they can do it. And they can almost always attempt it, even if they'll be bad at it. The outcomes are predictable even if they're not always successful. There's an insular quality in that respect and therefore the player becomes more comfortable to extend themselves and become more heroic.
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