Damage by Creatures Great and small

Refplace · 05-16-2012, 07:32 PM

OK, the cat thread has me thinking on this. It rarely comes up in my games but is one of the few remaining areas that kinda bugs me. Apparently quite a few others.
Here is a page on SM that consolidates all the rules.
http://ottgaming.grimoire.ca/Borderlands/Size_Modifier
I do not have a link to Tbones Gulliver page it seems.

I think that the idea of small SM giving additional penalties would be a problem with the existing rules and balance. SM is considered a 0 cost feature and I think it best it stay that way. For one thing some small creatures could do or take more damage despite a small size.
Or conversely with a bigger critter.

So we could keep it as is then assign optional modifiers that may apply to PC characters and animals.
You can hand waive it for realistic creatures and give points back to those who are based on points or let them be unrealistic in their capability.
At that point lower SM just becomes a list of suggested shopping items. Higher SM already is like this in many ways.

Shrinking (Always On, +100%) for 10 points a level doing all the things Shrinking does but its a disadvantage. You can buy off some of the effects per Shrinking but then get less points for it.

Buy down all the relevant attributes...
HP, ST, Move all are likely candidates to buy down for smaller critters and up for larger ones. I think this is well enough covered.
Damage
ST can take an increased Armor Divisor which lowers your offensive ability significantly.
Tiny Claws [-2] Treat as small piercing.

To Hit Trampling...
This is covered in Basic, a smaller creature is harder to hit then a larger one.
really small creatures can be trampled. If your SM exceeds your victims by 2 or more (1 if prone) you can Trample. This is against DX/Brawling and the only defense is a dodge.
Damage is Thrust (crushing)
If your SM exceeds his by 3 or more treat it using the Large Area injury rules.
This works fine for stepping on a small critter. However the swatting a fly example is rather common around here and I think merits applying trampling to your hands as well. Note that the rules on trampling do not specifically say you have to step on your foe. They do not mention relative SM but I think that section implies you ignore it so I chose to for this option.
Now we have a practical attack if were really bigger then our foe to hit them without being an expert in combat. And the Dodge defense is fair enough. Pretty darn hard to hit a fly if it senses your attack!
This does mean an ant or cockroach can dodge but anyone who has tried to step on those can see some merit there as well. ;)
Optionally you might treat this as an area attack past a certain point and only allow retreating dodge and with their low move score they cant step very far.

I think little critters hitting big ones is fine, GMs just has to judge what can be reached.

Refplace · 05-17-2012, 11:51 AM

Relevant rules to note.
Combat at Different Levels p402 gives penalties based on height difference. This can be offset by longer reach.

05-16-2012, 07:32 PM	#1
Refplace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Yukon, OK	Damage by Creatures Great and small OK, the cat thread has me thinking on this. It rarely comes up in my games but is one of the few remaining areas that kinda bugs me. Apparently quite a few others. Here is a page on SM that consolidates all the rules. http://ottgaming.grimoire.ca/Borderlands/Size_Modifier I do not have a link to Tbones Gulliver page it seems. I think that the idea of small SM giving additional penalties would be a problem with the existing rules and balance. SM is considered a 0 cost feature and I think it best it stay that way. For one thing some small creatures could do or take more damage despite a small size. Or conversely with a bigger critter. So we could keep it as is then assign optional modifiers that may apply to PC characters and animals. You can hand waive it for realistic creatures and give points back to those who are based on points or let them be unrealistic in their capability. At that point lower SM just becomes a list of suggested shopping items. Higher SM already is like this in many ways. Shrinking (Always On, +100%) for 10 points a level doing all the things Shrinking does but its a disadvantage. You can buy off some of the effects per Shrinking but then get less points for it. Buy down all the relevant attributes... HP, ST, Move all are likely candidates to buy down for smaller critters and up for larger ones. I think this is well enough covered. Damage ST can take an increased Armor Divisor which lowers your offensive ability significantly. Tiny Claws [-2] Treat as small piercing. To Hit Trampling... This is covered in Basic, a smaller creature is harder to hit then a larger one. really small creatures can be trampled. If your SM exceeds your victims by 2 or more (1 if prone) you can Trample. This is against DX/Brawling and the only defense is a dodge. Damage is Thrust (crushing) If your SM exceeds his by 3 or more treat it using the Large Area injury rules. This works fine for stepping on a small critter. However the swatting a fly example is rather common around here and I think merits applying trampling to your hands as well. Note that the rules on trampling do not specifically say you have to step on your foe. They do not mention relative SM but I think that section implies you ignore it so I chose to for this option. Now we have a practical attack if were really bigger then our foe to hit them without being an expert in combat. And the Dodge defense is fair enough. Pretty darn hard to hit a fly if it senses your attack! This does mean an ant or cockroach can dodge but anyone who has tried to step on those can see some merit there as well. ;) Optionally you might treat this as an area attack past a certain point and only allow retreating dodge and with their low move score they cant step very far. I think little critters hitting big ones is fine, GMs just has to judge what can be reached.

05-17-2012, 11:51 AM	#2
Refplace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Yukon, OK	Re: Damage by Creatures Great and small Relevant rules to note. Combat at Different Levels p402 gives penalties based on height difference. This can be offset by longer reach.