Supernormal Martial Artists [Martial Arts/Supers]

[AlexanderHowl]

One of the more interesting builds in Supers campaigns is the supernormal martial artists, an individual who keeps up with through cinematic abilities, mundane equipment, and superior skills. Batman, Green Arrow, Punisher, etc. all serve as examples of the effectiveness of the archetype, but I often find that players want PCs to be superhumans rather than supernormals. In fact, it is much more likely that I will end up using supernormals as villains, as their superior capabilities allow me even the battlefield against superhuman PCs.

One way that I have found to encourage the existence of supernormals in campaigns with superhuman is to make cinematic advantages/skills mutually incompatible with superhuman abilities. A supernormal martial artist develops cinematic advantages and skills while a superhuman martial artist develops powered abilities. By forbidding the crossing of the two streams, supernormals are capable of competing with superhumans.

How do you handle supernormal martial artists? Do you prevent characters from crossing the streams or do you allow characters that have cinematic advantages and superhuman abilities? How often do you have people play supernormals in your games and are they satisfied with their characters?

[naloth]

I do the opposite. If you want to build a "super normal", that's just another type of Super using the same list of advantages.

There's nothing less "super" about a martial artist that can climb walls, regularly exceed world class records for strength and jumping, and easily dodge bullets while fighting "supers" barehanded.

The cinematic martial arts options aren't balanced well against Advantages. I suspect they aren't intended to be, either. Some options are better suited to other campaigns.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

How do you handle supernormal martial artists? Do you prevent characters from crossing the streams or do you allow characters that have cinematic advantages and superhuman abilities? How often do you have people play supernormals in your games and are they satisfied with their characters?

I warn them that their characters are going to suck mightily compared to characters with super powers.

Supernormals only, really, work when they have plot armor and Patron (Writer; deific-being; 15-; highly accessible; No Signature). Which are both super powers.

The, basic, issue is DR. It stops damage up to its level. My character, Charlemagne (Link to pic; he does actually have powers, just not any offensive powers), has to fight with his fists and his mind. He can clean a room of thugs in a matter of seconds, but, against anyone with an all-over DR of 5 or more, he's not likely to stop them. He does 1d+1 in a punch and 1d+2 in a kick. Even with his reinforced gloves and boots, which give an extra +1 damage doesn't help against even minimal DR.

Even if he had some cinematic skills, he wouldn't do much.

His best use is to be a vigilante, striking from the shadows, making people afraid of him--a lot like Batman (he just doesn't enjoy beating up the mentally ill). In an actual fight, his best thing is to keep foes busy (dodging/all-out-defenses) until someone with an actual, offensive power becomes available.

[AlexanderHowl]

What doesn't he use guns?

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

What doesn't he use guns?

Because he's not a murderer.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

What doesn't he use guns?

Genre convention.

[khorboth]

So, I'd start out with a serious look and insistence in a defensive luck. It's mundane enough and will increase their lifespan dramatically.

Then, we ask why these characters are actually useful. Batman is around in the Justice League because of his skills. Depending on what version we're talking about, he could easily have Detective!-24, Inventor!-25 and Tactics-30 all of which will make him exceedingly useful. His super power is over-the-top skills. He figures out the bad guys' weakness, makes a thing to exploit it, and then helps his friends deploy it. No, he can't effectively launch a tank into orbit, but he's the only one on the team who can track the shipment of black market goods through the underworld.

Captain America is another good example. He's got maxed out normal-dude stats and some serious skills, but aside from some supernatural durability really doesn't have the powers. Sure, his shield is a great gadget-based power, but mostly he's tactics, inspiration, and leadership.

Similarly, I'd want a super-normal in my game to have skills which make them useful enough to make up for the lack of powers. If we're talking 1500 point supers, it shouldn't be too hard. If the supers are built on 500 points, then the skills to make up for it won't need to be as big.

(Let's not derail this thread into debating how I'm wrong about the specific comics characters. I hereby admit I'm not an expert or authority and am probably wrong.)

[AlexanderHowl]

Captain America is a threshold case because of his shield. If you allow supernormals to have supergadgets, then Iron Man is a supernormal. If supernormals are restricted to mundane (and/or superscience) equipment, they can still have higher TL equipment through a combination of Gadgeteer, High TL, Signature Gear, and Wealth.

For example, a supernormal could discover an abandoned alien TL 12^ assault shuttle buried on their family's farm from a battle 10,000 years ago. With TL12^ military equipment, they could justify purchasing High TL+4, high TL skills, Signature Gear, and/or Wealth. With a TL 12 nanosuit, a TL12^ pulsar rifle, and a TL12^ tactical force field, a supernormal could face down a lot of superhuman without any trouble.

[Kale]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

He can clean a room of thugs in a matter of seconds, but, against anyone with an all-over DR of 5 or more, he's not likely to stop them.

Grappling? That thug can have all the armor in the world, but it won't do him much good if your hero has tied his limbs into a pretzel.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Kale

Grappling? That thug can have all the armor in the world, but it won't do him much good if your hero has tied his limbs into a pretzel.

That depends a lot on the target's ST, of course, which wasn't mentioned.

Really, IMHO, what constitutes 'supernormal,' and how useful one is in a game where useful offensive and defensive superpowers are available, depends a great deal on who is doing the defining. A 'supernormal' who has high levels of Serendipity, lots of points in various Luck-related advantages, a few mundane-but-useful Gizmos, and suchlike, is very different from one who just has really high mundane skills, stats, and reasonable levels of a wide range of mundane advantages, or one who has Trained By A Master and a bunch of cinematic skills and techniques.

How useful any sort of supernormal is also depends a lot of what sort of offensive and defensive powers are available, and at what levels. If most powered characters can't do much more damage unarmed than a small pistol can, and have defences at around the same level with appropriate limitations (because it's a 'street level' or 'urban fantasy' sort of comicbook setting), the supernormals are much better off than they are in a setting where the powered heroes and villains are throwing around 6dx10 energy blasts that their opponents tank with their mighty force fields.