Convert PCs DnD>DFRPG

[Anth]

Hi again.
I'd be really happy for any feedback on how to converting PCs from DnD to DFRPG.

I'm not interested in an exact conversion, I just want something quick and dirty.
I'll just give my players Character Points and it's up to them to create new DFRPG PCs as similar to their old DnD PC as they want.

Even if they are power gamers and munchkins, I AM NOT!
I just want the conversion to be as simple as possible.

Here's my suggestion:

100 points + 20 * level.
So level 10 would be 300 points.

Is it too high or too low?

But my players are not satisfied

We didn't use point buy for abilities in DnD, we rolled "4d6 drop lowest" for all abilities.
And of course they want this to be reflected in the points they receive to build DFRPG PCs (at least those who rolled high).
So here's my suggestion:

The base in both DnD and DFRPG is 10 in all abilities/attibutes, so:
STR 10, DEX 10, CON 10, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 10 =equals= ST 10, DX 10, IQ 10, HT 10.

In DFRPG an attribute increase vill affect all skills depending on that attribute immediately.
In DnD you don't use abilities directly as you use attributes in DFRPG. Instead they use ability modifiers that increases every two step of ability increase:
10-11 : +0
12-13 : +1
14-15 : +2

It would be fair to say that a two point ability increase in DnD equals a one point attribute increase in DFRPG, so:
STR 12, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 12 =equals= ST 11, DX 11, IQ 11, HT 11.

To raise 6 abilities 2 steps is a total of 12 rises.
To raise 4 attributes 1 level is 60 points.
60/12 = 5.
So every ability increase in DnD is worth 5 points in DFRPG.

If you roll 4d6, drop lowest, it gives an average of 12.25, let's round down to 12.
Let's then give the players 5 point for each ability step above 12 in DnD (and of course -5 for each ability below 12).

Is this too much, too little, or maybe too stupid?

[Turhan's Bey Company]

GURPS/DFRPG and D&D are different systems which don't share assumptions, structures for progression, mechanics, and so on. Despite having similar names and ranges, for example, attributes like dexterity and intelligence mean fundamentally different things in the two systems. Mechanistic conversion schemes, therefore, have historically proved unsatisfying for many people. Your best bet is probably to try to thematically reproduce characters rather than trying to map incompatible systems together. Use the templates as a starting point and modify to suit the character concept. The templates are suitable for low-to-mid-level characters (say, 5th-10th level). Pile on more points for higher levels, or use henchman templates from DF15 for very low-level characters. There's a general feeling that 25 points per level produces a tolerably good match for the feel of power levels, but that's as far as I'd take it.

[Kalzazz]

Both D&D and DFRPG are conveniently scaled 3-18 where 3 is horrid and 18 is good, so

ST = STR
DX = DEX
HT = CON
IQ = INT

Now wisdom and charisma? If someone is a Cleric or Druid or Sorcerer just use WIS or CHA instead of IQ for the conversion above. It someone has High WIS and high INT give them some levels of Per and Will to. High CHA and high INT give them some Charisma or Appearance.

Add CON - 10 to HP

Skill - make sure main attack skill is at least 10 + D&D attack. For instance if someone has BAB 8, +4 from 18 STR and +1 from weapon focus give them 23 skill.

If they have lots of feats or things pertaining to violence give them Weapon Master

I tend to just assume any caster not a starting scrub has Magery / PI 6.

Season to taste and roll

[Kalzazz]

I think you have 2 choices

A - give players N points and say 'go try to make thematically similar characters'

Or

B - You convert them come what may, accepting that the party will not all nicely equal N points and will have values all over the place

Trying to convert them but have them all end up N points to me is simply going to result in tears and disaster

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Both D&D and DFRPG are conveniently scaled 3-18 where 3 is horrid and 18 is good, so

ST = STR
DX = DEX
HT = CON
IQ = INT

I would not do this, personally. ST = STR actually isn't horrid. But since even most starting PCs in 5e have at least a 16 in their key attribute, and the +2 or 2x +1 means they can have 20s really fast as part of skill progression (fighters are notorious for this, as they get seven attribute ability score increases over the course of 20 levels, three of them in the first 10 levels).

For DX, IQ, and HT I've had better luck using the attribute BONUS from some of the more recent editions. So DEX 20 --> DX 15. DEX 12 (+1) --> DX 11. This is what the OP suggested, and I think it works out MUCH better than a straight map at least for the intrinsic attributes; STR won't kill anyone if it varies more.

Even so, conversion between the systems is fraught with peril, and it may well be that the best way to go here is for you as the GM to do the conversion, or at least the bare bones of it, look at the point values thus generated, and then say "and now spend up to an X-point target."

But this is going to be an ugly process if your players are competitive rather than cooperative.

[Kalzazz]

I find it infinitely more rewarding to preserve the numbers than the bonuses, so 16 DX = 16 DEX rather than 13 DX = 16 DEX

Part of the goal is to take your Prime Attribute to the Skies, and going from something cool like an 18 to something not cool like a 14 invalidates that

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

I find it infinitely more rewarding to preserve the numbers than the bonuses, so 16 DX = 16 DEX rather than 13 DX = 16 DEX

Part of the goal is to take your Prime Attribute to the Skies, and going from something cool like an 18 to something not cool like a 14 invalidates that

An 18 stat (+4 bonus) just isn't all that. A 20 vs an 18 is a 5% boost to success chances. You can expect (as a fighter) to have STR or DEX (depending on your build) at 18 at Level 4.

A 14 attribute in GURPS is superior to a 14 in D&D. Heck, in Swords and Wizardry (maps to early edition D&D), anywhere from a 13 to an 18 DEX mapped to a whopping +1 to hit; later editions spread that out, but again, d20 not 3d6. STR 13-15 was +1 to hit, +0 to damage, with only 16, 17, and 18 being particularly interesting. And even then with an 18 it's +10% chance to hit, +3 points of damage (that's actually the bigger deal because of how few hit points OSR critters have relative to later editions).

Throwing stats to the ceiling in a D&D to GURPS conversion is something I'd never do, and I don't do it when I convert between the two systems for my publishing.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

GURPS/DFRPG and D&D are different systems which don't share assumptions, structures for progression, mechanics, and so on. Despite having similar names and ranges, for example, attributes like dexterity and intelligence mean fundamentally different things in the two systems. Mechanistic conversion schemes, therefore, have historically proved unsatisfying for many people. Your best bet is probably to try to thematically reproduce characters rather than trying to map incompatible systems together. Use the templates as a starting point and modify to suit the character concept. The templates are suitable for low-to-mid-level characters (say, 5th-10th level). Pile on more points for higher levels, or use henchman templates from DF15 for very low-level characters. There's a general feeling that 25 points per level produces a tolerably good match for the feel of power levels, but that's as far as I'd take it.

And just to echo this, if changing systems, I'd absolutely start with one of the DFRPG templates, and then *thematically* choose advantages, disadvantages, and skills based on the original D&D concept. Just throw any sort of formal mapping to the wind.

If you really wanted to get nutso and vary point levels to reflect the 4d6 drop lowest thing, map the cost to purchase each ability score using one of the point-buy methods in the PHB/DMG (wherever), and then let the point totals each character gets vary proportionally.

But really: theme, not numbers. They're different games.

[Kalzazz]

Yeah, probably getting started in AD&D 2e where 15 Str gives you the same combat bonus as 8 Str, 7-14 Dex, 7-14 Con etc has a certain impact on my feelings of Big numbers or nothing.

That a 12 is meaningfully different from a 13 is a nice about DFRPG

18 is cool regardless of how much plusses it does or doesn't have because it's a 3-18 scaled system and we know 18 is just supposed to be cool. Whether or not we are playing one of N different editions of D&D, Y different editions of Earthdawn, Palladium Fantasy or what have you, even if say 3e D&D gives bonuses 1 per 2, Earthdawn 1 per 3, 2e AD&D hope you have a chart etc.

Not only are the starting stats mostly bounded so are the ending stats. A well leveled DFRPG character might expect 25 in their prime attribute, so would a D&D character expect thereabouts (In 3e if you start at 18 and roll in your +5 from your levels can hit 23, which is clo we to 25), so if you take say a Pit Fiend with a 27 in one of its stats you know 'oh this is meant to be a bit better statwise than a well leveled hero' and 27 still works since it is a bit better than a well leveled DFRPG hero can expect to see. And same with a goblin, it's stats translate to 'I am a loser compared to a hero' (at 13 DX it's best stat is equal to a 13 DX Barbarian the least dextrous slugger).


Obviously fine tuning may be required. A ST 16 ork can't even attack once a round with a greataxe so clearly it needs ST 16. It has Con 16? Maybe it wants to never fail HT saves . . . . Oh look it has Aggressive Attack! Orks must love All Out Attacks and relying on their high HT saves and HP to make sure the other guy dies first. If they get stabbed in the eye well this is because PCs are cool named heroes and Ork #7 vs cool named heroes is bad for Ork #7. (Only a specialist Knight or Swash, or focsed Scout, can actually really well pull off the eye hit as a starting character)

It definitely mostly works fine converting monsters and NPCs and having them fill several enough roles.

I think there is a core difference in philosophy, I see the guy has say 18 Dex, so to me the core important element is 'this 3-18 scaled character has an 18', I don't care that the guy has '20% better odds of hitting someone with a bow', I convert the stat across and let the game effects of the stat fall out as it may


Of course were I to convert a monster for you I would use your rules and do so happilly

[Kalzazz]

Giving the players points and asking them to make characters thematically inspired by the original seems much lower risk of the players thinking you did it wrong