[DF] See Secrets: Overpowered in DF?

[Kuroshima]

When dungeon crawls make an unhealthful use of secret doors and traps, isn't See Secrets a little overpowered? I mean, the way I read is, is that it reveals all those things, as well as any deliberately hidden feature of the dungeon.

Considering that one of the owners of the dungeon is a powerful mage, what options do I have to keep some traps/secret doors hidden?

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Considering that one of the owners of the dungeon is a powerful mage, what options do I have to keep some traps/secret doors hidden?

Assuming See Secrets is some kind of spell in the default GURPS Magic system, one would expect any reasonable world to contain some kind of countermeasure, evolved at some point due to tactical pressure.

So if the official rules doesn't have something like that, make it up, and make it available in the world as common spell, or magical ritual, or Enchantment, or whatever.

[thalassogen]

Maybe Avoid (p. M140). At least for secret doors. Not that good for traps, though.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

When dungeon crawls make an unhealthful use of secret doors and traps, isn't See Secrets a little overpowered?

There are a lot of things in GURPS Magic that are gamebreaking in many campaigns -- really, most of the Information and Communication/Empathy colleges should be discarded. I generally rule that Remove Aura erases the intent information used by spells such as See Secrets.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Assuming See Secrets is some kind of spell in the default GURPS Magic system, one would expect any reasonable world to contain some kind of countermeasure, evolved at some point due to tactical pressure.

So if the official rules doesn't have something like that, make it up, and make it available in the world as common spell, or magical ritual, or Enchantment, or whatever.

It would be nice to have a book on dungeon design that would have ways for dungeon builders to counter these types of spells and super high levels of Per. But I doubt a book like this will ever happen.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by thalassogen

Maybe Avoid (p. M140). At least for secret doors. Not that good for traps, though.

I'nteresting, I'll give it a checkout

Originally Posted by Anthony

There are a lot of things in GURPS Magic that are gamebreaking in many campaigns -- really, most of the Information and Communication/Empathy colleges should be discarded. I generally rule that Remove Aura erases the intent information used by spells such as See Secrets.

Another good idea

Well, since the stronghold/dungeon complex was built by a (in)famous warrior and mage duo of adventurers (MIA ATM, that's why the party goes to loot them. They aren't nice people, and neither are the characters ;) so it's not that bad as it looks at first sight). I'll assume that the mage's secret areas are protected.

[mlangsdorf]

Putting traps in no-mana zones completely conceals them from mages using See Secrets, and the mage can't necessarily even detect the no-mana zone without entering it.

Presumably, there's also no-sanctity zones ("athiest zones") that would cancel out priests and druids using See Secrets.

[tg_ambro]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Putting traps in no-mana zones completely conceals them from mages using See Secrets, and the mage can't necessarily even detect the no-mana zone without entering it.

Presumably, there's also no-sanctity zones ("athiest zones") that would cancel out priests and druids using See Secrets.

That is a very clever, and in my opinion, a non-shafting use of No-Mana zones. I'll undoubtably be stealing that little gem.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Putting traps in no-mana zones completely conceals them from mages using See Secrets, and the mage can't necessarily even detect the no-mana zone without entering it.

Presumably, there's also no-sanctity zones ("athiest zones") that would cancel out priests and druids using See Secrets.

Maybe something like the "mundane zone" mentioned in DF 6 under Normalization spheres.

[Anthony]

For my house rules: per the text of the spell, see secrets shows things that were intentionally concealed. My interpretation is that it's basically a specialized form of History which detects the intent of the people doing the concealment. Thus, if the concealment was performed by an entity that lacks intent (robot, golem, etc), detection is very hard (you have to detect the indirect intent of the person who gave the orders). Also, if the concealment was done in a no mana zone, no traces are left (short of extensive use of suppress mana, this is unlikely for doors, traps, etc, but might affect a hidden compartment in a movable object).

Alternately, you can just apply the same penalties to See Secrets that would be applied to a normal search, which means any secret that's hard to detect in conventional ways is also hard to detect with magic. In a setting where magic is common, it's reasonable to assume common counters are also known.