a FAQ entry giving standards for normal-range IQs would save a lot of argument

[Johan Larson]

I see there is another long-running thread chewing over what the various normal-range scores correspond to when modelling real people in GURPS. This is common in gaming forums, and so is the tendency of such arguments to focus on INT or IQ stats, since gamers tend to self-identify as clever.

With this in mind, I think a great deal of acrimonious argument could be avoided if someone were to provide standards for assigning IQ scores when creating GURPS stats for real people. These standards would have to be as concrete as possible--fuzzy ones already exist, and are failing to resolve arguments.

So who is "someone"? This needs to be someone with significant standing in this group, whose judgements (assuming basic soundness) would therefore be accepted as definitive. I don't have that, but there are at least a half-dozen regular posters who do.

[aesir23]

The problem is that nobody's opinion is more definitive than Kromm's and his comments are what started the argument in the other thread.

Like Atheism vs. Theism, Socialism vs. Capitalism, Pirates vs. Ninjas, or Batman vs. Wolverine; this is an issue on which intelligent, reasonable people may be unable to find common ground.

[Xplo]

The reason this hasn't been done is because it can't be. There is no way to objectively measure what GURPS calls "IQ" in the real world, even assuming that any correlation can be drawn between real intelligence (whatever that may be) and GURPS IQ.

You're stuck with the unending arguments, I'm afraid.

[Rev. Pee Kitty]

Real-world Intelligence Quotient is one thing. Actual broad, applied intelligence, which is what GURPS Intelligence (IQ) tries to model, is another. They have a vague relation, but there is no direct correlation between them.

You can have RL I.Q. 150 and yet be a fool who misses obvious things and can't readily put his mind to practical, applied use (i.e., stuff that doesn't involve taking tests). That translates to a low GURPS IQ.

You can have RL I.Q. 80 and yet be excellent at a large range of social, craft, and professional skills because you're extremely dedicated when it comes to learning something new, even if you're horrible at tests and other "abstract" things. That translates to a high GURPS IQ.

In other words, the range would be so broad as to be not particularly useful. It'd probably look something like this:

REAL WORLD IQ -> GURPS IQ
0-80 -> 6-15
81-120 -> 6-17
121-150 -> 7-19
151-180 -> 7-20
181+ -> 8-20

There. So if you have IQ 132 in real life, you know that your GURPS IQ falls somewhere between IQ 7 and IQ 19. Is this helpful? I don't think it really is, but maybe others will disagree.

[LemmingLord]

I know it probably has been said before, but how about getting rid of IQ as a stat, base all smartsy skills off of 10, and give everyone a talent to describe the smartsy skills they might be good at .

Heck - do away with all the stats too for that matter. Make everything based on talent advantages and incomptency disadvantages.

<Strength Talents>
<Strength Incomptence>

<IQ Talents>
<IQ Incompetence

<Dex Talent>
<Dex Incompetence>

<Health Talents>
<Health Incompetence>

Hey...its starting to look alot like paranoia now.. hmmmm. Neat!

Add perversity points and you have those action points I've been talking about...

[Rev. Pee Kitty]

Originally Posted by LemmingLord

I know it probably has been said before, but how about getting rid of IQ as a stat, base all smartsy skills off of 10, and give everyone a talent to describe the smartsy skills they might be good at .

No, that's definitely not a suggestion I've seen tossed around a lot. I have to say that getting rid of IQ would be far too great a change to GURPS for me to even try, and I'm a huge supporter of house rules. :)

Y'know, I'm curious -- you do seem to want to change the heck out of GURPS in a large percentage of your posts. I don't mind that in a bad way, mind you -- a person should feel free to adapt his preferred system by anywhere from 0% to 99% -- but once you start getting up above about 20% or so, one starts to wonder if a different system would be easier to use as a base.

This is a long way for me to ask, if you don't mind, what is it that you (LemmingLord) think that GURPS does better than any other system? I've heard all the stuff you think it does poorly, so I've become curious (over the past few weeks) what you wouldn't change.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by LemmingLord

I know it probably has been said before, but how about getting rid of IQ as a stat, base all smartsy skills off of 10, and give everyone a talent to describe the smartsy skills they might be good at .

.

IQ is already such a talent.

[sir_pudding]

One thing that occurred to me today is that if IQ 10 is the GURPS intelligence of a "typical 18 year old male fit for military service" then don't we have a much better benchmark than IQ tests? Since the ASVAB score is a straight percentile of a representative sample it should be pretty easy to map to attributes.

EDIT: Of course that assumes that GURPS IQs are on the ASVAB scale. Obviously a 50=10, but a 99 could be anything (and if Kromm is right and my GURPS IQ is =<11 than a 99 would mean 11+).

[LemmingLord]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

No, that's definitely not a suggestion I've seen tossed around a lot. I have to say that getting rid of IQ would be far too great a change to GURPS for me to even try, and I'm a huge supporter of house rules. :)

Y'know, I'm curious -- you do seem to want to change the heck out of GURPS in a large percentage of your posts. I don't mind that in a bad way, mind you -- a person should feel free to adapt his preferred system by anywhere from 0% to 99% -- but once you start getting up above about 20% or so, one starts to wonder if a different system would be easier to use as a base.

This is a long way for me to ask, if you don't mind, what is it that you (LemmingLord) think that GURPS does better than any other system? I've heard all the stuff you think it does poorly, so I've become curious (over the past few weeks) what you wouldn't change.

Very diplomatically put. No, I don't hate GURPS. It is the system of choice for me because of nostalgia. It worked very well for me as a boy, then as a teen, and ever since. Now that 4th edition has come out and made it clear that the system is a big tool box, with rules you can take or leave, it has inspired me to think outside the box (set).

I used to have this dream in highschool of a character sheet hobbled together from various game systems. From GURPS I would take the old fantasy folk profile pics, advantages, disadvantages, quirks, and perqs sections. Attributes? Basic spd mumbo? Not so much.

[Rev. Pee Kitty]

Originally Posted by LemmingLord

Very diplomatically put. No, I don't hate GURPS.

I never thought you did. You wouldn't be here if that were the case.

From GURPS I would take the old fantasy folk profile pics, advantages, disadvantages, quirks, and perqs sections. Attributes? Basic spd mumbo? Not so much.

Thanks for the response. Here, one tends to encounter GURPS fanatics and those who've never touched the system, and not much in between. It's genuinely interesting for me to hear someone say, "I like X in GURPS and hate Y," when X and Y are major parts of the system (not just fiddly bits and optional rules).