Is the Initiative roll the single most important roll in the game?

[Athanbeli]

Hi everyone.

I got the impression that the initiative roll that start hostile encounters might be the single most important roll in the game.
Has this been expanded somewhere, perhaps with a wider range of modifiers and more varied results? So far I checked martial arts and action 2, yet I couldn't find anything about that in those 2 volumes.

[sjard]

I haven't rolled for initiative in GURPS in... well ever. You set up the sequence during character creation. Highest move character goes first.

[Kromm]

You just about never make this roll. It's a special case of the surprise rules intended for situations where two groups of people mutually surprise each other, and determines which side is more surprised. In the vast majority of cases where both sides are expecting trouble and encounter one another, you simply start the combat sequence and have individuals act in order of Basic Speed.

[Qoltar]

Originally Posted by Athanbeli

Hi everyone.

I got the impression that the initiative roll that start hostile encounters might be the single most important roll in the game.
Has this been expanded somewhere, perhaps with a wider range of modifiers and more varied results? So far I checked martial arts and action 2, yet I couldn't find anything about that in those 2 volumes.

Initiative Roll??

Thats something I've seen obsessed over in D&D games, not GURPS sessions.

When I ran encounters , either the adversaries had surprise or they didn't. There wasn't initiative rolls because even with NPCs involved I had them go in the order of the mopve or speed number. Or heck maybe just based on how close they were to the player characters on the map.


- Ed Charlton

[Athanbeli]

Oh well, actually I rolled it no more than 3 times during my current campaign, but I mis-read a message in another thread that made me guess wether it should be rolled routinely.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Athanbeli

Has this been expanded somewhere, perhaps with a wider range of modifiers and more varied results? So far I checked martial arts and action 2, yet I couldn't find anything about that in those 2 volumes.

I combined the two methods in 3e -- 1d6 + (unrounded) Move. i found either alone was inadequate: a simple die roll was far too random, while just using Move gave far too much advantage to someone who might be only marginally faster. By combining them, the higher Move tended to go first, but not always.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by copeab

I combined the two methods in 3e -- 1d6 + (unrounded) Move. i found either alone was inadequate: a simple die roll was far too random, while just using Move gave far too much advantage to someone who might be only marginally faster. By combining them, the higher Move tended to go first, but not always.

Note that this is "Initiative" in the D&D sense, and not at all how GURPS standard rules handles Initiative. D&D Initiative is handled by GURPS Turn Sequence rules; GURPS Initiative is about Surprise at the start of combat.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Note that this is "Initiative" in the D&D sense, and not at all how GURPS standard rules handles Initiative. D&D Initiative is handled by GURPS Turn Sequence rules; GURPS Initiative is about Surprise at the start of combat.

Well, if you want to be picky ;)

Although the system I used did determine Turn Sequence (and I use modified 3e rules anyway).

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by copeab

Well, if you want to be picky ;)

I find it's important to be picky on this subject because too many people conflate Turn Sequence with Initiative in GURPS because what GURPS calls Initiative bares no resemblance to what other games call Initiative.

Originally Posted by copeab

Although the system I used did determine Turn Sequence (and I use modified 3e rules anyway).

D&D Initiative rules determine what GUPRS calls Turn Sequence. Initiative in GURPS is a completely different concept.

We'd probably have been better off if they had dropped the word "Initiative" from 4e for the concept and simply used some variant of the Mental Stun rules for Combat Surprise.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Note that this is "Initiative" in the D&D sense, and not at all how GURPS standard rules handles Initiative. D&D Initiative is handled by GURPS Turn Sequence rules; GURPS Initiative is about Surprise at the start of combat.

Yes. These things tend to be confused becase D&D used "initiative" to mean something that gamers took as the dictionary definition of the word, but which would have been more logically be called "order of individual action." GURPS uses "initiative" in the more traditional military sense, to mean which side in a conflict is acting, forcing the other side to react, and thus controlling the conflict. It has nothing to do with individuals.