Shiny empty hands?

[A1cme3]

This came up in a game last night:

I forget the name of the card (part of original Munchkin or one of the expansion decks - Fiery Arms?) but it gives +3 for each empty hand, and printed value on the card is "No Value." Then, I added the item enhancer "Shiny" to it, for an additional +2.

That by itself was a bit of an issue, because the other players didn't think I could use an item enhancer on empty hands. My logic was that 'no value' IS a value, therefore it's an item, therefore item enhancers apply. We agreed to let me use it. Then things got tricky...

A. Do I get +3 for each empty hand for +6, then the +2 from shiny (+8 total)?
B. Do I get +3 and +2 for each shiny empty hand (+10 total)?
C. If I decide to use a one-handed item, is my other (empty) hand still shiny (+5 total)?
D. If the answer to C is yes, doesn't that mean B applies by default (if one shiny, empty hand is +5, two has to be +10)?

Or was I in the wrong by playing an enhancer in the first place? I know this is probably coming across as asking several questions in one thread; hopefully you see where I'm coming from on this one. Thanks for the help!

[-ScreenName-]

Originally Posted by A1cme3

A. Do I get +3 for each empty hand for +6, then the +2 from shiny (+8 total)?
B. Do I get +3 and +2 for each shiny empty hand (+10 total)?
C. If I decide to use a one-handed item, is my other (empty) hand still shiny (+5 total)?
D. If the answer to C is yes, doesn't that mean B applies by default (if one shiny, empty hand is +5, two has to be +10)?

i'm not sure if you can do that, but technically the way you described it seems like you could.
i think that A. is correct because it's the total bonus you have at the moment and then you add the +2 (shiny)
therefore C. is also correct since your fire arms bonus changed from +6 to +3 and then you add the +2 (shiny)

Btw if you're talking about shiny being in munchkin or its expansions i think you're right, but if you were talking about fire arms i don't remember it being in the original and also don't remember which expansion its in.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by -ScreenName-

i'm not sure if you can do that,

Then please don't muddy the issue by answering the question. We get a lot of questions from people who "remember reading something somewhere," and often it's a case like this where someone speculated based on incomplete knowledge or mistaken memories of cards or rules.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by A1cme3

I forget the name of the card (part of original Munchkin or one of the expansion decks - Fiery Arms?) but it gives +3 for each empty hand, and printed value on the card is "No Value." Then, I added the item enhancer "Shiny" to it, for an additional +2.

A card with "No Value" printed on it IS an Item (um, unless it's listed in the errata -- check those pages, because a couple of times we've screwed up). Fire Arms is DEFINITELY considered an Item.

Originally Posted by A1cme3

A. Do I get +3 for each empty hand for +6, then the +2 from shiny (+8 total)?

This.

Originally Posted by A1cme3

C. If I decide to use a one-handed item, is my other (empty) hand still shiny (+5 total)?

You're misreading the card. Fire Arms is ALWAYS in play and ALWAYS Shiny -- it just doesn't always give you a bonus. (Correction: it's always +2 for being Shiny, even if the rest of the bonus doesn't apply.)

Originally Posted by A1cme3

I know this is probably coming across as asking several questions in one thread; hopefully you see where I'm coming from on this one. Thanks for the help!

No, this is fine, because it's related questions about a single situation (and, really, it's a multiple choice question, not several different questions).

[A1cme3]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

You're misreading the card. Fire Arms is ALWAYS in play and ALWAYS Shiny -- it just doesn't always give you a bonus. (Correction: it's always +2 for being Shiny, even if the rest of the bonus doesn't apply.)

Maybe I worded my question funny: If I have Shiny Fire Arms (+8 with two empty hands), and I then choose to equip a +1 one-handed item, I then have one Shiny Fire Arm (+5) and +1 from the item (+6). If I then equip another +1 one-handed item, I have a total of +4? (+1 from each one-handed item, and the bonus from Shiny still applies.) Is this what you meant?

The rest of your post made sense to me and I thank you for the reply.

[Andrew Hackard]

Here are your possibilities:

1) Shiny Fire Arms with two empty hands: +8
2) Shiny Fire Arms with one empty hand: +5 (plus any bonus from the item in the other hand)
3) Shiny Fire Arms with no empty hands: +2 (plus any bonus from the item(s) in your hands)

Technically, that's not all, because if you're wearing the Arm-y Helmet or using similar items, those ARE Hand slots and they DO count for Fire Arms. But I'll leave that math as an exercise for the student.

[Deatheux]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Then please don't muddy the issue by answering the question. We get a lot of questions from people who "remember reading something somewhere," and often it's a case like this where someone speculated based on incomplete knowledge or mistaken memories of cards or rules.

thanks Andrew, i hope that EVERY FOROMS on earth will have this advertissement!!!

add this to the sticky, this is important.

back to our response, this is awesome(nearly abusive, humm, munchkill-y!

[-ScreenName-]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Then please don't muddy the issue by answering the question. We get a lot of questions from people who "remember reading something somewhere," and often it's a case like this where someone speculated based on incomplete knowledge or mistaken memories of cards or rules.

sorry about that, however besides not knowing if they could use it or not, it seems as if i answered every other question correctly.

[-ScreenName-]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

A card with "No Value" printed on it IS an Item (um, unless it's listed in the errata -- check those pages, because a couple of times we've screwed up).

also i was mostly unsure about whether it was an item or not because i have come across things like that in the errata. i didn't specifically mention this case because i've never seen it in the errata but it could always be an errata not checked before.

[breakfast2588]

As of right now, I'm quite certain that there are only three cards that looked like items and are not. The first is Really Impressive Title, which was originally an item but has been errated. The other two are Curse! Lead Paint and Curse! Warranty Expires, which were both misprinted as treasure cards with gold values originally, but have also since been errated.

Other than that, anything with a value is an item, and even a few things that don't have values and should (Reloaded Die comes to mind).