Punching A Prone Opponent

[tjbuege]

Are there any modifiers or penalties for an unarmed attack against a prone opponent? Grappling rules say that in order to grapple a prone opponent, you must lie down or kneel. But what about attacking (punching with a bare fist) an opponent that is lying down? I would think it's also necessary to at least kneel. Last I checked, my fists do not come anywhere near the ground when I am standing.

Thanks,
Tim

[Mailanka]

None that I can find. In fact, things like Dodge and Drop only work against ranged attacks.

You can lean down and punch. I mean, if we assume you can punch someone in the foot (most of that penalty comes from the size of the foot, rather than the awkwardness of punching so low), then it's no trouble to punch someone who is lying down.

Martial Arts might have something more to say on the topic, though.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by tjbuege

Are there any modifiers or penalties for an unarmed attack against a prone opponent? Grappling rules say that in order to grapple a prone opponent, you must lie down or kneel. But what about attacking (punching with a bare fist) an opponent that is lying down? I would think it's also necessary to at least kneel. Last I checked, my fists do not come anywhere near the ground when I am standing.

Thanks,
Tim

From basic, no. MA99 has a -2 for reach C weapons and punches. Elbow strike, knee strike, and head butts are complete no-gos.

[tjbuege]

So it appears there is a contradiction between Basic and Martial Arts books? (Or more likely I'm missing something yet.) Mailanka brings up a good point, with the example of punching your opponent's foot. Does MA talk about punching our opponent's feet, and apply a similar penalty?

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by tjbuege

So it appears there is a contradiction between Basic and Martial Arts books? (Or more likely I'm missing something yet.) Mailanka brings up a good point, with the example of punching your opponent's foot. Does MA talk about punching our opponent's feet, and apply a similar penalty?

It's considered too fiddly to go through on a case by case basis in Basic. Fiddly combat stuff, on the other hand, is what Martial Arts is all about. MA doesn't explicitly cover punching someone's foot, if you're prone -2 is removed from trying to hit an opponent's feet or legs, which suggests to me some of the penalty for attacking those locations normally is due to them being hard to reach.

[tjbuege]

Yeah, I was just about to post when I saw your reply. MA98 says "The GM is free to assign a modifier to any attack he feels should be easier or harder from a given posture, and to forbid those that seem silly. Below are detailed rules for those who enjoy extreme realism." I'm not sure I'm ready to keep track of all that extreme realism.

Thanks,
Tim

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by tjbuege

I'm not sure I'm ready to keep track of all that extreme realism.

I feel the same, but it's nice to know it's there if I ever want it. :-)

[SimonAce]

Four words

All Out Stamp Kick

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by SimonAce

Four words

All Out Stamp Kick

QFT. Better yet, All-Out (Double) Telegraphic Stamp Kick, which gets a net skill+1 to hit if you're using your Brawling or Karate default, and a -1 to the target's active defenses when you subtract the +2 for Telegraphic Attack from the -3 for being Prone (assuming they don't have Ground Fighting).

Game Anecdote: The most-skilled Brawler in my recent TL 5 bar fight hand-to-hand combat demo blew one of the NPCs over with a minimal-damage Deceptive Slam and then AoA (Double) Telegraphic Stamp-Kicked him in the Skull (actually three times, splitting one with Rapid Strike - It was that kind of game) for the only fatality of the evening. The setting was a small town, so the poor man's relatives give the PC who did the terrible deed the most unfriendly looks in church now.

[Crakkerjakk]

My undestanding of the old LINE training they used to teach Marines was that it basically boiled down to, "Break something to distract your opponent, throw them to the ground, then kick them in the skull till they stop twitching."