Unarmed Dual-Weapon Attack...

[Perfect Organism]

Until recently, I had always assumed that Dual-Weapon Attack was only available to weapons, but a recent reading of Martial Arts showed me that it can also apply to unarmed attacks.

Can an unarmed DWA be attempted at default by those with an unarmed combat skill (or by those without, for that matter)? If so, why would anyone make unarmed rapid strikes? Most unarmed skills don't take off-hand penalties, so they will geneally have to roll at -4/-4 instead of -6/-6. Even those with TBaM would seem to be better off with DWA most of the time, since the extra -1 to hit is offset by the -1 to the target's defences.

[trooper6]

I'm playing an armed fighter who is built around DWA. As such, I can tell you the drawback of DWA vs. Rapid Strike.

With DWA I am limited to 2 attacks.
Rapid Strike doesn't have that limit. And now, as I roam the Arena, my opponents are regularly taking three rapid strikes...sometimes four or five! And here I am with my 2 DWAs. And that -1 to their defenses? Yeah, most of the ones who are in a position to do so have already taken Dual Weapon Defense.

[Kromm]

Barehanded fighters generally are better off trying DWA instead of RS. This is because hands aren't artificial weapons, but built-in ones that come in pairs. Nearly all realistic hand-strike combos use two hands, not one hand twice.

Of course, the downside is that you need two open hands. Outside of fist fights, this isn't ideal. Weapons have lots of advantages over bare hands.

[Perfect Organism]

Can you mix and match punches, kicks, etc. in a DWA? If you buy the technique up for an unarmed skill, does it apply for all uses of that skill or do you need to specify DWA (Punch) or DWA (Kick) as seperate techniques?

[Fragwulf]

Originally Posted by trooper6

I'm playing an armed fighter who is built around DWA. As such, I can tell you the drawback of DWA vs. Rapid Strike.

With DWA I am limited to 2 attacks.
Rapid Strike doesn't have that limit. And now, as I roam the Arena, my opponents are regularly taking three rapid strikes...sometimes four or five! And here I am with my 2 DWAs. And that -1 to their defenses? Yeah, most of the ones who are in a position to do so have already taken Dual Weapon Defense.

Why can't you still make use of Rapid Strike yourself? Just because you're holding two weapons doesn't mean that you have to attack with both every chance you get.

[Fragwulf]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

Can you mix and match punches, kicks, etc. in a DWA? If you buy the technique up for an unarmed skill, does it apply for all uses of that skill or do you need to specify DWA (Punch) or DWA (Kick) as seperate techniques?

The Technique specifically says Skill. If I were your GM, I'd allow DWA (Karate) to cover basic punching/kicking.

[Kromm]

The DWA technique is essentially a modifier – like Attack from Above, Close Combat, Counterattack, Fighting While Seated, Ground Fighting, or Low Fighting – that you can apply to any attack with the skill for which you purchase it. It isn't a specific strike peculiar to a particular body part, like Triangle Choke vs. Choke Hold, Spinning Kick vs. Spinning Punch, or any Targeted Attack.

[Jerron]

P417 in the Basic Set mentions the rule "is balanced enough to use in a realistic campaign." However it mentions elsewhere it's cinematic, so it is of course a GM call. However, it does mention there you may use it unarmed.

The thing that bothers me, is that in MA none of the styles (that I've looked at, not saying I looked at all of them) have it as a technique. I may be a little off there, not near that book right now, but I think it says If you go by the strict rules, you can't buy a technique unless it's in your style. Therefore no one may buy that technique.

In my games, I let anyone buy techniques within reason, so I don't have a house rule about it- but if I did, I'd let that technique be part of just about every style. (Why not all? Well, spear or halberd or something wouldn't get it. Probably more, but sensible ones would all get it.)

So of course, the answer is, 'Depends'. Yes, you read correctly, if the GM is allowing the technique as non-cinematic, or it is a cinematic game. If he's allowing lots of skill, enough to do several Rapid Strikes, it sounds like it anyhow.

An interesting side to that is extra attacks. While you can only buy more than one per weapon with a 20% enhancement, once you do, you may make those attacks at full skill with one hand. Adding another attack with a second hand would be at -8, while another Rapid Strike would only be -6. With Weapon Master, it would be -3, while the DWA would still be -8, since none of those penalties are affected by Weapon Master.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Fragwulf

Why can't you still make use of Rapid Strike yourself? Just because you're holding two weapons doesn't mean that you have to attack with both every chance you get.

It's probably an investment issue . . . if you have 5 points in DWA and another 1 point in OHWT, you can attack with a weapon in either hand at full skill, or twice with a single weapon at -6 (or at -3, if you're a cinematic master). In a high-stakes fight, you often can't afford to give up three to six levels of skill, as many important combat events boil down to Quick Contests . . . and of course Deceptive Attack is key.

[Fragwulf]

Originally Posted by Kromm

It's probably an investment issue . . . if you have 5 points in DWA and another 1 point in OHWT, you can attack with a weapon in either hand at full skill, or twice with a single weapon at -6 (or at -3, if you're a cinematic master). In a high-stakes fight, you often can't afford to give up three to six levels of skill, as many important combat events boil down to Quick Contests . . . and of course Deceptive Attack is key.

I can see that.. I just made a Halfling shortsword Weapon Master that won't be doing too much in the way of multiple attacks (he's a 100 point character with an effective 16 skill with the sword). I thought of making him a dual wielder, but just couldn't reconcile the image of a Halfling dervish in my head.

trooper6 mentioned that his opponents were making up to 4-5 rapid strikes in a single round, which makes me wonder just how high their skills are. Unless he's fighting the Fist of the North Star. :)