What is the Shotgun's place in combat?

[ObscureAI]

Now the shotgun as I would think would be useful in CQC, however the when I worked out a few numbers the assault rifle seemed to beat the shotgun in terms of damage even there.

The shotgun requires 8 points under to hit with all of its pellets.
This causes 9d6+9 points of damage.
If the user has 18 skill and adding the +2 for rapid fire, discounting range, the user has a total of 20 skill. So he needs around a 12 to hit with all of the pellets.
My math works that a 2 is taken away from the required amount as the numbers 2 and 1 are impossible to get on a skill roll.
So 10/16 = 62.5%

However a 5.56 assault rifle can account for more by using burst or semi.
3 bullets is 15d6 points of damage.
its recoil is usually 2.

so he needs a 14 to hit with those 3 bullets.
12/16 = 75%

I know my math is far from perfect, but it does seem easier to hit and kill with an assault rifle than a shotgun. Then including the assault rifles range and accuracy over the common shotgun, its better armor penetration. The shotgun to me seems to have lost its place.

If anyone can correct me on anything, I have said please tell me, I do like the shotgun as a weapon and would like to see that it does have a place in combat.

And excuse me for my messy work, I usually do not write on forums.

I dont mean shells would be easier to find than 5.56 in certain settings/ the shotgun is easier to obtain than an assault rifle.
Its lack of armor penetration would mean it wouldn't go thru people/things or atleast not as much and hit someone else on the other side.
Its intimidation factor can only go so far.
Its bulk is the same as an assault rifle.
Shells are bulkier than most assault rifle rounds.
Rapid Fire bonuses quickly lose ground as it goes up.
Slow reloading.

[SuedodeuS]

Shotguns aren't used very frequently on the battlefield. The assault rifle is simply better at most roles. There are a few areas where the shotgun wins, however.

Penetration, Lack of: You don't want overpenetration is certain situations. Most notably, it's Bad News for home defense (where it can lead to innocents getting hit). Add this to the fact that shotguns have a much shorter range and are easier to get access to, and you've got a very good home defense weapon.

Specialty rounds: The rifled slug is a good deal better than buckshot in many instances. 5d pi++ is nothing to sniff at, although you'd probably be better off with an assault rifle. Even so, you can use a shotgun for special loads like frangible ammunition for breaching doors and the like. It can also be used for less-lethal rounds (like batons and the like), and on the other side there's even a (experimental) HEAT round for shotguns!


For general use, an assault rifle wins. For home defense you would probably be better off with a shotgun (that massive RoF bonus greatly improves the chance for a hit).

[Diomedes]

First of all, 3 rifle bullets is more properly compared to three shotshells. That's a total of 27 pellets, for a +5 to hit.

A shotgun does less damage if all shots hit, but you have a better chance of hitting at all. that +5 to hit doesn't matter if your effective skill with range modifiers is already 18, but amounts to a factor of 2 for distance.

Also, shotguns have different mechanics at short range (10% of 1/2D). Since the pellets don't have time to spread, they're treated as a single projectile. You don't get the +5 Rapid Fire Bonus, since you're now only firing 3 shots, but base damage is multilpied by 4 (but so is armor!).

[Kale]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Also, shotguns have different mechanics at short range (10% of 1/2D). Since the pellets don't have time to spread, they're treated as a single projectile. You don't get the +5 Rapid Fire Bonus, since you're now only firing 3 shots, but base damage is multilpied by 4 (but so is armor!).

Don't forget that damage increases to pi++ at short range as well. This is discussed in a number of other threads. (search for 'boomstick range' and 'squishy slug')
Generally the shotgun's advantage is versatility, in that it can be loaded with a number of different rounds. This makes it a handy weapon for clever PCs in various settings. For serious house-to-house fighting against human opponents, however, I think you are better off with the assault rifle (unless you are worried about collateral damage or hitting hostages accidentally) for the aforementioned reasons.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

(where it can lead to innocents getting hit)

I read "innocents" as "incontinents." Thought to myself, "well yeah, you don't want colostomy bags spattered everywhere!"

Originally Posted by Diomedes

First of all, 3 rifle bullets is more properly compared to three shotshells. That's a total of 27 pellets, for a +5 to hit.

Not really. What you care about is sustained volume of fire. You can (generally) unleash more whup-ass with an assault rifle, and even with higher rates of fire, the assault rifle has equivalent endurance before a reload. Not to mention reloading is also generally quicker with a rifle.

[nick012000]

Your math is wrong. The dice used by GURPS don't produce a linear curve like those used by d20 systems, but rather produce a bell curve centered at 10. Check out the table on B171.

[Ulzgoroth]

Outside boomstick range, the shotload's main combat virtue is high ROF and low rcl giving you a substantial edge to hitting, probably with multiple shots. The damage expectation may not be better, but actually hitting someone with buckshot is probably going to throw them off more than almost hitting them with 5.56mm. Then you shoot them again, if necessary.

Inside boomstick range, shotshells can't really match enhanced slugs, though they might be cheaper.

[Kalzazz]

pi++ is much much much better than pi when facing zombies or other unlivings

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

pi++ is much much much better than pi when facing zombies or other unlivings

Or anything else.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by ObscureAI

If the user has 18 skill and adding the +2 for rapid fire, discounting range, the user has a total of 20 skill. So he needs around a 12 to hit with all of the pellets.
My math works that a 2 is taken away from the required amount as the numbers 2 and 1 are impossible to get on a skill roll.
So 10/16 = 62.5%

However a 5.56 assault rifle can account for more by using burst or semi.
3 bullets is 15d6 points of damage.
its recoil is usually 2.

so he needs a 14 to hit with those 3 bullets.
12/16 = 75%

I know my math is far from perfect

The chances of getting less than or equal to given rolls on 3d6 are as follows:

13 . . 10 0.046%
14 . . 10 1.9%
15 . . 10 4.6%
16 . . 10 9.3%
17 . . 1 16.2%
18 . . 1 25.9%
19 . . 1 37.5%
10 . . 1 50%
11 . . 1 62.5%
12 . . 1 74.1%
13 . . 1 83.8%
14 . . 1 90.7%
15 . . 1 95.4%
16 . . 1 98.1%
17 . . 1 99.54%
18 . .. 100%

but it does seem easier to hit and kill with an assault rifle than a shotgun.

As it should be! An assault rifle is designed for combat, and a shotgun is designed for hunting flying birds and other swift-moving game.