Dixie and TL-191

[marvin]

I'm working on a WWII campaign set in an alternate history where the South won its independence. I like the Union from the Dixie setting in GURPS Alternate Earth; libertarian and already holding western Canada, but I want to merge this with the CSA from Harry Turtledove's Southern victory series of books.

My initial idea is to have the ACW go as per Dixie and then be followed by Turtledove's Second Mexican War which is lost by the Union. A little over a decade later the Guiana War is fought which sees the status quot pre-Second Mexican War returned, and the US is allowed to annex the Manitoba Republic, which was formed in 1885 by way of the Second Riel Revolt (while Britain was busy in the Central Asian Crisis with Russia). France, humbled by their loss to Prussia in 1870 and wary of the new German Empire, and its Spanish ally (now ruled by Leopold of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen) negotiates an end to crisis and works to form a alliance between Britain, France, Russia and the CSA.

WWI kicks off in 1914, as per Turtledove's description, and sees Germany, Austria and Spain against the Entente. Japan soon enters the war allied to Britain while a more industrialized Siam upholds her treaty commitments to Germany. Italy, the Netherlands, the United States and the Ottoman Empire remain neutral. This changes in 1915 when a Confederate sub sinks a Union warship and the US declares war on the Entente powers in April. Two months later Russia makes the mistake of attacking the Ottomans, thus bringing them into the war. The US mainly fights in North America and the Pacific, but Gen. Pershing is send with the AEF to the Middle East where he spends most of his time in a running battle with British forces under T.H. Lawrence.

In the end Germany is able to force Russia out of the war and as winter nears in 1917 France finally collapses. Japan sees the writing on the wall and withdraws from the war in a negotiated settlement. Britain and the CSA try to hold on, but the US capture of Toronto and Halifax coupled with the defeat of a large portion of the British fleet at the Battle of Sable Island force Britain out of the war as the threat of starvation nears. The Confederacy and its Mexican ally as for terms in September of 1918.

The Great Depression begins in 1922 when Russia and France both default on their loans and reparations. Germany and Austria threaten war but ethnic, colonial and communist uprisings prove too distracting. Italy, which sat out of the war, is ironically the first government to become fascist in 1924. France comes under the control of Action Française and Charles XI, and Britain sees Mosley's Silver Shirts seize control. Much of the Royal family flees to Canada, which was returned to Britain in return for its demilitarization and British Guiana, allowing Edward VIII to resume the throne.

Russia is plunged into a brutal Civil War (1921-1931) that sees the a new Tsar finally defeat the Communists with the help of his extremely vicious head of internal security, Stalin. The CSA too has problems with sporadic violence by blacks and dissatisfied poor whites. Having been forced to finally end slavery at the end of the Great War their economy is in shambles. The US is one of the few nations to see a relatively quick recovery as the new Republican administration reduces government interference and lowers tariffs and taxes. Initial labor unrest eases as business begins to boom into the Roaring Thirties.

Unfortunately, the rise of Jake Featherstone's Freedom Party in the CSA increases international tension and the Socialist victory in 1936 opens the door for Confederate demands for plebiscites in US occupied territories. Kentucky and western Texas vote to return the CSA but Sequoya and Sonora's pro-Union outcomes anger Featherstone.

In 1939 France launches a sudden invasion through Belgium into the Netherlands and Germany. They are soon joined by Italian attacks against Austria and a Greek attack on Anatolia. Britain also declares war on Germany and her allies but soon becomes bogged down in a rebellion in India and an ill-fated assault on Norway. The US enters the war on Oct. 31, 1940 after a French submarine attack on Union held Bermuda. On June 22, 1941 the CSA invades the United States and on November 30, 1941 Japan launches an offensive against Dutch, British and Union holdings throughout the Pacific Rim.

Any thoughts so far.
Benjamin

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by marvin

I'm working on a WWII campaign set in an alternate history where the South won its independence. I like the Union from the Dixie setting in GURPS Alternate Earth; libertarian and already holding western Canada, but I want to merge this with the CSA from Harry Turtledove's Southern victory series of books.

My initial idea is to have the ACW go as per Dixie and then be followed by Turtledove's Second Mexican War which is lost by the Union. A little over a decade later the Guiana War is fought which sees the status quot pre-Second Mexican War returned, and the US is allowed to annex the Manitoba Republic, which was formed in 1885 by way of the Second Riel Revolt (while Britain was busy in the Central Asian Crisis with Russia). France, humbled by their loss to Prussia in 1870 and wary of the new German Empire, and its Spanish ally (now ruled by Leopold of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen) negotiates an end to crisis and works to form a alliance between Britain, France, Russia and the CSA.

WWI kicks off in 1914, as per Turtledove's description, and sees Germany, Austria and Spain against the Entente. Japan soon enters the war allied to Britain while a more industrialized Siam upholds her treaty commitments to Germany. Italy, the Netherlands, the United States and the Ottoman Empire remain neutral. This changes in 1915 when a Confederate sub sinks a Union warship and the US declares war on the Entente powers in April. Two months later Russia makes the mistake of attacking the Ottomans, thus bringing them into the war. The US mainly fights in North America and the Pacific, but Gen. Pershing is send with the AEF to the Middle East where he spends most of his time in a running battle with British forces under T.H. Lawrence.

In the end Germany is able to force Russia out of the war and as winter nears in 1917 France finally collapses. Japan sees the writing on the wall and withdraws from the war in a negotiated settlement. Britain and the CSA try to hold on, but the US capture of Toronto and Halifax coupled with the defeat of a large portion of the British fleet at the Battle of Sable Island force Britain out of the war as the threat of starvation nears. The Confederacy and its Mexican ally as for terms in September of 1918.

The Great Depression begins in 1922 when Russia and France both default on their loans and reparations. Germany and Austria threaten war but ethnic, colonial and communist uprisings prove too distracting. Italy, which sat out of the war, is ironically the first government to become fascist in 1924. France comes under the control of Action Française and Charles XI, and Britain sees Mosley's Silver Shirts seize control. Much of the Royal family flees to Canada, which was returned to Britain in return for its demilitarization and British Guiana, allowing Edward VIII to resume the throne.

Russia is plunged into a brutal Civil War (1921-1931) that sees the a new Tsar finally defeat the Communists with the help of his extremely vicious head of internal security, Stalin. The CSA too has problems with sporadic violence by blacks and dissatisfied poor whites. Having been forced to finally end slavery at the end of the Great War their economy is in shambles. The US is one of the few nations to see a relatively quick recovery as the new Republican administration reduces government interference and lowers tariffs and taxes. Initial labor unrest eases as business begins to boom into the Roaring Thirties.

Unfortunately, the rise of Jake Featherstone's Freedom Party in the CSA increases international tension and the Socialist victory in 1936 opens the door for Confederate demands for plebiscites in US occupied territories. Kentucky and western Texas vote to return the CSA but Sequoya and Sonora's pro-Union outcomes anger Featherstone.

In 1939 France launches a sudden invasion through Belgium into the Netherlands and Germany. They are soon joined by Italian attacks against Austria and a Greek attack on Anatolia. Britain also declares war on Germany and her allies but soon becomes bogged down in a rebellion in India and an ill-fated assault on Norway. The US enters the war on Oct. 31, 1940 after a French submarine attack on Union held Bermuda. On June 22, 1941 the CSA invades the United States and on November 30, 1941 Japan launches an offensive against Dutch, British and Union holdings throughout the Pacific Rim.

Any thoughts so far.
Benjamin

I might leave Stalin as a Communist. It's not like the Czar lacked brutal men.

The Czarist vistory is akin to Chaing Kai Shek's over the Chinese Communists in the 30s. They're tiney, being chased around by the miltary etc. But not destroyed and potentially a factor in things.

Then alter the history so that Rasputin isn't murdered in 1916. Rasputin may or may not have mystical abilities. If so the exact nature of how Rasputin guides the Czar to victory may be something Man was not Meant to Know, but his success in doing so is completely credible.

If he's a capable madman or superb con artist his 'mystic' contacts give him an intelligence operation of wome worth. And the wife or child of someone in the Moscow Communist leadership reeals something to a mystic working with Rasputin is convinced to put icons on the corners of the block her husband is staying at.

Thus is the safehouse used by both Lenin and Trotsky identified and the two leaders captured.

Stalin, if you still want him runs the communist held lands along the Mongolian and Chinese borders crossing them for safety when the Czar's forces are really trying to exterminate him. He's supplied with arms and food by agents of Germany, the US and Japan, who'd like to see Russia preoccupied with internal matters.

Alternate: Alaska is not purchased by a US that lost the war. It's used as a prison camp state by the Czar after beating the Communists. In this version, Stalin is captured tried and exiled to Alaska along with other Communists.

They discover GOLD.

This in turn greatly improves their chances of becoming the dominant power in Russia. ;)

[lazlo_woodbine]

I disagree, I think it's more fun to have this world's Stalin complete his priest training and then become a discipline of Rasputin!

btw, what Socialist 1936 victory do you mean? Debs in the USA or something?

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by lazlo_woodbine

I disagree, I think it's more fun to have this world's Stalin complete his priest training and then become a discipline of Rasputin!

btw, what Socialist 1936 victory do you mean? Debs in the USA or something?

Ooooh, Stalin + Rasputin? Craziness! I like it.

If not Debbs, what about someone like Henry Wallace?

[lazlo_woodbine]

Never heard of Henry Wallace, sorry, but Debbs and his lot seemed the most likely candidates.

Just realised that the OP doesn't mention Austria-Hungary, just Austria. Does a victorious Central Powers scenario mean that the Habsburg Empire survives? Plenty of tension simmeringa away there in that case. It would be easy for a defeated Russia to appeal to pan-slavist sentiments to undermine A-H...

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by lazlo_woodbine

Never heard of Henry Wallace, sorry, but Debbs and his lot seemed the most likely candidates.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...y_Wallace.html

[lazlo_woodbine]

What about Huey and the rest of the Long dynasty - similar sorts of populist progressiv types?

[marvin]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Actually, its Al Smith in 1936 per Turtledove's Victorious Opposition. Smith reluctantly takes the US into the European war after the attack on Bermuda (the Kaiser and the Union's Socialist Party don't always see eye-to-eye.) The Austrian Empire has survived WWI as Italy was neutral and they came out of the war in better shape. The Ottoman Empire on the other hand fell apart, though Turkey was able to retain more land in both the European and Asian regions.

I'm not having any supernatural elements in this game so Rasputin remains just a manipulative bane of the Romanov's who is eventually killed by Stalin. But I very much like the idea of Stalin remaining in the priest hood and basically replacing Rasputin as the Tsar "religious adviser." Having Russia become a quasi theocracy ruled by a vindictive Royal family bent on purging all political undesirables and Stalin heading up a power hungry Orthodox church working to eradicate all religious dissenters, could give OTL Nazis a run for their money on the pure-evil meter.

I'm still working on the rest of the world. I'm unsure what to do in some areas of the world. For instance in GURPS AE Dixie timeline Brazil retains slavery and becomes a strong Confederate ally with Argentina siding with the Union. In Turtledove's books Brazil has ended slavery and sides with the Union in WWI and stays neutral in WWII. I do know I'll be dropping Turtledove's continuous Mormon Uprisings. I'll just say they were forced out after fights with black settlers and Indians. Maybe I'll have a Mormon settlement in Australia.

Benjamin

[Michele]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Ooooh, Stalin + Rasputin? Craziness! I like it.

Just to say I'd find that very interesting myself.

[marvin]

Well Rasputin was born in 1869, thus making him 70 at the start of WWII. Given how darn hard the bugger was to kill I could see him living to a ripe old age.

I figure when the Communist uprising occurred a portion of the Royal family was killed and the rest fled, perhaps with Rasputin's help. Rasputin could then recruit a little known Orthodox priest from Georgia into his sordid world of mysticism and deceit. Where-upon the two, master and apprentice, would quickly become the real power behind the Russian throne. Of course the parallels between another little known story of an evil master and apprentice relationship are a bit obvious, but I'm wringing my hands just thinking about the nastiness these two could rain down upon the PCs.

Thanks for the idea.

Benjamin