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Old 04-19-2010, 10:56 AM   #11
trooper6
 
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

I agree with refplace.

I'll also add that a public speaking performance may have no propaganda element at all.

We are in Tredroy.

Public Speaker Joe tells funny stories using Public Speaking (Comedy). The result? That group of people are entertained and laugh. Doesn't mean that the crowd will do anything else other than being entertained. Doesn't mean they'll vote any way, or give anybody anything.

Propaganda on the other hand, in the form of printed leaflets, might help sway the people of Tredroy into thinking that they should support an embargo against Megalos.

Those are two really different skills.

Public Speaking is about skill in delivery. It isn't about content.

Propaganda is about content, with the caveat that the delivery must be indirect and related to the media.
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:06 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

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Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
Public Speaking is about skill in delivery. It isn't about content.

Propaganda is about content, with the caveat that the delivery must be indirect and related to the media.
I don't quite agree with that. I think you can deliver propaganda through the vehicle of speeches to mass audiences, whether in person or via electronic media; and I think you can use Propaganda as a complementary skill to Public Speaking in certain circumstances.

What we need is GURPS Mass Influence to go with GURPS Mass Combat.

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Old 04-19-2010, 11:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

Wow. I'm surprised there is so much attention put on speaking.

Speaking is not the first thing I think of when I think of Propaganda. The first image my brain spits out is a pamphlet. Then comes spray-panted stencil. Then Soviet posters. Little kids and pretty girls singing Nazi songs. I need to entertain the idea of Propaganda for a few seconds before public speaking even occurs to me.

The Army of the 12 Monkeys (from the Terry Gilliam film, 12 Monkeys) used Propaganda.

Smokey the bear is Propaganda. And while I'm sure the voice actor for Smokey had a Public Speaking skill (and likely Voice), I don't think he was the brains behind the operation. He wasn't the one in charge of reducing forest fires.

Reporters, photographers, artists, politicians, and advertisers (and more) have all been known to use Propaganda without much talk.

In other words, what Phil Masters said.
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

Public Speaking can substitute for Propaganda, but only while speaking to the public. Propaganda involves so much more than just giving a speech. To be fair, Propaganda is probably as cinematic a skill as Computer Hacking, in GURPS terms. Much of what is done through Propaganda is done through the use of other skills, like Research, Psychology, Sociology, etc. Lumping it under one skill just makes it easier for the game and the players.
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

Propaganda operates on the same intellectual and social level as Administration, Intelligence Analysis, and Strategy. For instance:

• Someone with Administration doubtless has a large staff with some or all of Accounting, Current Affairs (Business), Diplomacy, Finance (who are often the bosses of people with Merchant), Law . . . and Propaganda, actually. All of whom depend on armies of drones with Computer Operation and Typing.

• Someone with Intelligence Analysis receives data gathered by operators with skills as diverse as Cartography, Electronics Operation, Forensics, Interrogation, Meteorology, Observation, Photography, Research, and Search, depending on whether they gather data from crime scenes, libraries, prisoners, satellites, or guys in trench coats snapping photos.

• Someone with Strategy sees his grand plans executed by underlings who use Leadership and Tactics to manage chaps with Artillery, Camouflage, Forward Observer, Gunner, Guns, Soldier, etc.

Similarly, someone with Propaganda plans the work done by individuals with skills as diverse as Artist, Forgery, Group Performance (which in turn directs people with Performance), Musical Composition and/or Poetry (themselves put into action with Musical Instrument and/or Singing), Politics, Psychology (who direct the guys with Brainwashing and Teaching), and Writing (which is behind most uses of Public Speaking).

It's big-picture skill. Which isn't to say it can't be applied directly, in the field, by a keen operator. That isn't its main use, though.
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:32 PM   #16
trooper6
 
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

Kromm, how would you model a person who has that network of people that they lead.

So you want to make the PC who is the smooth operator and propagandist. This PC has a team of people who carry out their plans in the background (perhaps he has a Bard, a printmaker, a courtesan, etc). The PC is in a city/politics game and had adventures alongside the Thief/Spy PC (who controls a team of theives/spies), the Tough PC (who has a group of heavies), and the Finance Man (who has a group of merchants and producers).

Do you model this as Rank? Ally Group? Something else?
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

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Do you model this as Rank? Ally Group? Something else?
It can be a variety of things, depends on the concept. They can be hirelings, they can be under you because of Rank (corporate, military, etc...)... if they're personally loyal to you (instead of just obligation) they're an Ally Group (if they're reasonably uniform)... they can be part of the services a Patron puts at your disposal... hell, they can be the allies of your allies.

Depends on the concept really.
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

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Do you model this as Rank? Ally Group? Something else?
Contacts and Contact Groups is another possibility.
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

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hell, they can be the allies of your allies.
While the RAW isn't explicit on this, I think it's strongly implied that the PC must also pay for these sorts of allies as though they were his own. Otherwise the PC is getting the benefit of these allies for free since they don't increase the point cost of his Ally.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why is Propaganda a skill?

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While the RAW isn't explicit on this, I think it's strongly implied that the PC must also pay for these sorts of allies as though they were his own. Otherwise the PC is getting the benefit of these allies for free since they don't increase the point cost of his Ally.
NPCs (which allies are) don't have Allies. so yes if you want allies of allies to be available you need to buy them... there is one exaction to this... Allies with the Summable enhancement... Basically an NPC Summoner can buy such allies
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