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Old 06-19-2009, 10:49 PM   #31
Rocket Man
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
Default Re: House Rules

I recently thought of a house rule to slow down skill/ability progression, if necessary.

Why bother? Well, in this game, characters can get very powerful very quickly, especially if a PC accumulates a lot of points in the bank. Story limitations imposed by the GM can help ("No, you can't go from Large Weapon/1 to Large Weapon/6 with just a weekend of training") but for those who want a more mechanical solution, read on:

Slow Levels: At character creation, levels for skills, Songs, etc. are bought at the same 1 point-to-1 level ratio as before. (After all, these characters may be centuries old; it makes sense to be free and easy on the starting levels.) But once play has started, any "leveled" ability can only be increased by spending points equal to the next level up. So:

a) Going from Small Weapon/1 to Small Weapon/2 would require 2 points.

b) Improving the Song of Thunder/2 to Thunder/5 would require 12 points (3 for level 3, 4 for level 4 and 5 for level 5).

This could also apply to Servants, Roles, etc. The idea is the same: it takes time and practice to get really good at something, even for a celestial.

Note that this does not affect the cost for Attunements or Forces/Characteristics.
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:49 AM   #32
Edman
 
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Default Re: House Rules

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Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post
Another "house rule" I've mulled over is in regard to the Role/Status relationship. Right now, the RAW say that the more detailed a Role you have, the more Status it can have, but never actually specifies a ratio. A straight 1:1 would seem to invalidate some character concepts, such as the reclusive millionaire whose name is known, but whose face wouldn't be automatically recognized on the street and whose personal life is a bit of a mystery.

Therefore, I propose the following:

Status/Role: Celestials must buy at least one level of Role for every two levels of Status (or fraction thereof) that the Role has. This is a minimum! Roles that are especially well-known ("Jack Dakota, NFL quarterback") or very long-established ("Granny Jenkins, grandma to the whole neighborhood for 30 years") may require more Role levels at the GM's discretion.
I enforce a 1:1 ratio. I mean, a millionaire isn't going to have any particular status from his millionairity unless he proves he's a millionaire and to do that, you need funds and to have funds, you need paper. Important people will be scrutinized and in order to stand up to that, you need a high level role. I know it makes some concepts expensive, but status gives alot of power in my games so that's ok.
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:29 PM   #33
Rocket Man
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Default Re: House Rules

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I enforce a 1:1 ratio. I mean, a millionaire isn't going to have any particular status from his millionairity unless he proves he's a millionaire and to do that, you need funds and to have funds, you need paper. Important people will be scrutinized and in order to stand up to that, you need a high level role. I know it makes some concepts expensive, but status gives alot of power in my games so that's ok.
That's a legitimate take on it, and one with a lot of canon behind it. It just doesn't happen to be my take. Even a Role/1 gives you a basic identity that's enough to cash checks and get a job, so Role/3 isn't necessarily shabby ... it's just not the "We can write the story of your life" that a Role/6 is.

My current concept kind of required something like that ... a millionaire who supposedly rose up from a humble (and underdocumented) background. His Role/3 reflects two things: first, that more people know his name on paperwork and his voice on the telephone than would recognize his face on the street, and secondly, that past a certain point in his life, there isn't a lot for an investigator to find. He has the funds, but not the copious detail.

Looked at that way, it's actually a potential weakness, one that he tries to cover for until he can "frim things up" a little more.
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:20 PM   #34
Rocket Man
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Default Re: House Rules

This was an unintentional "house rule" of our campaign: most of us failed to realize we were deviating from written canon until an experienced player pointed it out. It's proven useful, and even logical:

The Tether Express: Celestials pay no Essence to assume celestial form within a Tether, so long as they are doing so in order to "ascend" to Heaven or Hell. The 2 Essence that would normally be required to "go celestial" is assumed to be drawn from the Tether itself, probably by the Seneschal.

Of course, if the Seneschal is reluctant to allow the Tether's use but has no reason to forbid it, they could presumably hold back the gift of Essence. Celestials now have to pay the 2 points again, this time as a "toll" for use of the Highway to Heaven (or Hell, as the case may be).
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:12 AM   #35
JCD
 
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Default Re: House Rules

I'm wondering if anyone tried the "3/1" rules on Songs, where you buy a point of skill in Shields and have access to all three versions, based on your Forces.

That seems an easy gouge to add some crunchy bits to the players w/o gifting them with fungilbe points.

No one seems to like th Disturbance rules as written and most seem to think that the Vessels are a bit too buff.

I HATE the Celestial combat rules. I have an 11 Force Angel who has 28 soul hits per force. And damage? 1d6 on average. Not going to happen unless you are in a mob of enemies. Not at the speeds these Celestials can fly away.

Any non GURPS gouges?
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:18 AM   #36
rknop
 
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Default Re: House Rules

Years ago, running an In Nomine PBEM, I converted to Fudge. There were two main things that bothered me about the In Nomine rules. First, check digits; the act that how well you did at a task was completely random, as opposed to being related to how good you were at what you were trying, bothered me. (I prefer a degree of success thing.) Second, Disturbance. It bothered me that it was *so* different how far away people could hear disturbance, and that the cutoff was so sharp. (What was obvious to one celestial was impossible to hear to another.)

Plus, I just like Fudge.

The current version of my conversion -- which is probably not the final say -- is here : http://www.sonic.net/~rknop/Omar/fudge/in_nomine.pdf

I hadn't touched it for several years -- although, in anticipation of potentially running some In Nomine soon, I futzed around with it a bit a few days ago.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:27 AM   #37
Rocket Man
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Default Re: House Rules

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Originally Posted by JCD View Post

I HATE the Celestial combat rules. I have an 11 Force Angel who has 28 soul hits per force. And damage? 1d6 on average. Not going to happen unless you are in a mob of enemies. Not at the speeds these Celestials can fly away.

Hmmm. You do have a point --- our group did manage to take down a powerful Shedite celestially, but we had a round or two of surprise, and the Corruptor was seriously overconfident. Even then, it was a long fight.

Here's a few thoughts that come to mind for changing the situation:

Chain Reaction: When Soul hits are knocked to zero in a celestial combat, the check digit of the "killer strike" determines how many Forces are lost (anywhere from the usual one to an awesome 6). Note that this will mean many weaker celestials try to avoid celestial combat altogether ... as they should!

You're Not Going Anywhere: If one celestial seriously "outmuscles" another, they can prevent an escape by grappling. Roll a contest of (Will plus Celestial Forces) when the grab is made. If the victim succeeds, proceed as normal -- he can move at Perception x 3 until he escapes. If the grabber succeeds, the victim can't move at all! Note that two or more celestials can "dogpile" someone to keep them in one spot this way -- the victim has to beat their combined rolls!
(If you want to weaken that last part to make celestial "mugging" more difficult, require a Tactics roll from one of the attackers in order to coordinate effectively.)

You're Not Going Anywhere, Part II: If a celestial has successfully grappled another, they may be able to keep them from slipping away to Heaven or Hell. The attacker can still spend 2 Essence to follow the celestial ... or 4 Essence to hold them on their current plane! Note that this is best done against a weak target whom you expect to finish quickly, since it WILL make a lot of noise while depleting your own reserves considerably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rknop View Post
Years ago, running an In Nomine PBEM, I converted to Fudge. There were two main things that bothered me about the In Nomine rules. First, check digits; the act that how well you did at a task was completely random, as opposed to being related to how good you were at what you were trying, bothered me. ...

Actually, I rather like that. It gives even the most ordinary human a chance to shine, while even the most awesome angel can't count on a deathblow every time. And how good you are at a task still determines *whether* you succeed ... it's just that (under the assumptions of the game's universe) *how well* you succeed may depend on a multitude of factors, of which your personal skill is only one. In some ways, that actually seemed more realistic to me. :)
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"

Last edited by Rocket Man; 06-30-2009 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:49 PM   #38
JCD
 
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Default Re: House Rules

Here is my issue. Celestial damage is too weak and Soul Hits are too plentiful.

Most Vessels have 30 body hits (assuming CF 3, Vessel 2, Strength 6), and there are many more tools to increase the power of the CD in corporeal combat.

It takes 18 Soul Hits to take away ONE Force. Yes it starts snowballing quickly, but still.

Using the example of the 'average' demon, it takes 162 Soul Hits to put him down. I am unsure of the exact mechanics, but it seems items and Resonances which do Celestial damage are few and far between. So mostly (except Calabim) I'm stuck with hitting 6 points of damage at a time...and that assumes great rolls. That is 27 perfect hits, as opposed to 5 vs a body.

It's supposed to be cinematic, but still.
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:16 PM   #39
Rocket Man
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
Default Re: House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
Here is my issue. Celestial damage is too weak and Soul Hits are too plentiful.

Most Vessels have 30 body hits (assuming CF 3, Vessel 2, Strength 6), and there are many more tools to increase the power of the CD in corporeal combat.

It takes 18 Soul Hits to take away ONE Force. Yes it starts snowballing quickly, but still.

Using the example of the 'average' demon, it takes 162 Soul Hits to put him down. I am unsure of the exact mechanics, but it seems items and Resonances which do Celestial damage are few and far between. So mostly (except Calabim) I'm stuck with hitting 6 points of damage at a time...and that assumes great rolls. That is 27 perfect hits, as opposed to 5 vs a body.

It's supposed to be cinematic, but still.
Understood, JCD. That's one reason I suggested the "Chain Reaction" rule -- the odds are good that your opponent will lose more than one Force to those 18 Soul Hits, speeding the fight up by a bit.

Another option might be to create some tactical house rules. For example, maybe celestials can try for a Haymaker, which strongly increases the Power of a blow but at the risk of leaving you open to a counterstroke if you miss. Or a One-Two Punch, where you can hit twice on a round, but if you miss the first blow, you don't get to try for the second one. Or ... but you get the idea. These could work in *any* combat, not just celestial, and might even make a decent equalizer for a tough human.

Still another is to allow certain artifacts and attunements to be usable in celestial form and do Soul damage. Things such as the Flaming Sword, the Holy/Unholy Pistol, Gabriel's Smite attunement, and so on. If you wanted to stretch a point, you might even allow the Blade Blessing of Laurence to be used directly on an angel in celestial form ... representing the fact that when in their Heavenly glory, they are the unsheathed "sword of Laurence."
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"

Last edited by Rocket Man; 06-30-2009 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:22 PM   #40
JCD
 
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Default Re: House Rules

I'm tempted to rule that Celestial strikes do Will +CD.

(Ruminates) The average Celestial has Will 6. So that would be 10 Soul Hits per. Not exactly deadly, but certainly more then current rules. Of course, meeting a big baddie with Will 12 would Soul Strip the players quite quickly.

A less deadly option would be to have Celestial Forces +CD. Or allow Will above 6 to give a +1, 9 a +2.

And most of the things you described are already canon. It just seems most folk ignore Celestial combat.
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