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Old 06-18-2009, 02:45 AM   #1
Black Rose
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern California
Default Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

Okay, I realize the Arabian is both off to join the Choir Invisible and truly well-bludgeoned on this topic, at least where I am concerned, but... I had an idea*.

What if, instead of a flat out reduction in Fatigue Cost for all spells, you had individual Dedicated!Fatigue** points. Say you have... three D!F points (as an example). You could dedicate them to any spell of up to 3 FP cost and make it cost "nothing". Or you could dedicate 2 I!F pts to a 2 FP spell and make it "free", and have a spare I!F pt for another spell should you need it. The thing is, if the spell you dedicated them to is still in effect (Armor, Invisibility, etc.), the points are inaccessible until that spell ends.

Now, despite my examples above, you could easily use your D!F pts on a more expensive spell -- it just wouldn't be free.

Frankly, I've been trying to figure out a way to make spellcasters that can cast smaller spells with real ease, but not be utter powerhouses. Giving them huge piles of Mana points was just a bad idea, and having Mana that recovers really fast has its own issues as well. But this seems like it could really work.

So my questions are:
A) does it seem reasonable? And if not, what is necessarly to make it so?

and B) how much should such a thing cost?

Thank you all for your time.


*Run now, while you still can.

**Or something like that.
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:10 AM   #2
Diomedes
 
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Default Re: Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Rose View Post
The thing is, if the spell you dedicated them to is still in effect (Armor, Invisibility, etc.), the points are inaccessible until that spell ends.
Does this mean the D!F points instantly regenerate once the spell ends? If not, I'm having trouble determining the difference from regular FP.

Quote:
Frankly, I've been trying to figure out a way to make spellcasters that can cast smaller spells with real ease, but not be utter powerhouses.
An idea I've been toying with is to reduce the minimum energy cost to zero once the base skill reaches 40. By that point the player has pumped ~100 points into a single spell.
Quote:
Giving them huge piles of Mana points was just a bad idea, and having Mana that recovers really fast has its own issues as well. But this seems like it could really work.

So my questions are:
A) does it seem reasonable? And if not, what is necessarly to make it so?

and B) how much should such a thing cost?
It seems like it would be expensive. Apart from the ER at 3 pts/level, building this out of abilities would take Extreme Regeneration (D!F only, Magical, -10%, Trigger, End of Spell, -10%) [120].
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Old 06-18-2009, 04:05 AM   #3
Black Rose
 
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Default Re: Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
Does this mean the D!F points instantly regenerate once the spell ends? If not, I'm having trouble determining the difference from regular FP.
Exactly. It serves as a floating "-1 to Fatigue Cost" for any spells -- and, I suppose, any spell-like effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
An idea I've been toying with is to reduce the minimum energy cost to zero once the base skill reaches 40. By that point the player has pumped ~100 points into a single spell.
I would think it would depend on the spell, as there are several spells that would "tap out" before that point. Interesting idea, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
It seems like it would be expensive. Apart from the ER at 3 pts/level, building this out of abilities would take Extreme Regeneration (D!F only, Magical, -10%, Trigger, End of Spell, -10%) [120].
I was thinking of it more like a self-contained "+5 Magery, only for determining Fatigue reduction, one spell at a time only". It could be a regenerating ER, but frankly, I have a visceral disagreement with that particular construct. There is something wrong, I think, with a build that says "it costs about five times as much to recover very quickly something that already recovers quickly on it's own." A "normal person" can recover all of their FP in one hour forty minutes, why does it cost so much to double that speed? Heck, I could buy 40 FP for that much, and that would be way more unbalancing, I think.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:04 PM   #4
benz72
 
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Default Re: Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

A thought on making lower powered spells easier/cheaper to cast...

Count some fraction of the points spent onspels using a specific spell as a prerequisite as 'advanced studies' in the base spell

e.g.
Learn spell A at 15 by spending 4 points, then learn spell B, which had A as a prerequisite. Sinc you spend 4 opints to learn B at 15, 2 extra points get added to your skill studying A.

This gives higher levels with the base spells.
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:01 PM   #5
Bookman
 
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Default Re: Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

I agree with your perceptions here wholeheartedly. The granularity of the FP system makes it hard to have any spell at all fall in to the "trivial, but not free category."

My solution is a little complex for most people, I suspect, but I'll present it as food for thought:

From my website:

Quote:
Magical Energy or Mana
Unlike standard GURPS, the ability to cast magic spells has no relation with the character's fatigue. Instead, a new secondary characteristic, Mana, has been introduced. A character has Mana points equal to (IQ + Magery)/5 -- the same formula as basic lift, substituting IQ + Magery for ST. Additional Mana can be purchased by way of purchasing extra IQ with the limitation (only for calculating Mana -80%) for 4 CP per level. A character may increase his IQ by maximum of 30% of base IQ in this way.

Most mages will have from 30-50 Mana, and spell costs have been increased accordingly (usually by a factor of four). Recovery rate and maintenance costs remain about same. The effects of this new secondary characteristic are:

Casting spells doesn't make a mage fatigued.
Highly talented mages have a little more power.
Spells can usually be maintained for longer.
Mages take much longer to recover when they are depleted.
So, in short:

Mages have about 4x as many mana points.
Most spells cost 4x as much.
Trivial spells cost 1 or 2 -- equivalent to 1/4 or 1/2 an FP.
Spells are much easier to maintain.

Food for thought. The system has held up pretty well, but I don't have any players actively trying to abuse it. YMMV.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:18 AM   #6
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

Thaumatology: see Divided and Hyper divided Magery for pretty much what you describe.

Edit: My bad. It is in Fantasy P129

Last edited by Refplace; 06-19-2009 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:28 AM   #7
Diomedes
 
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Default Re: Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Thaumatology: see Divided and Hyper divided Magery for pretty much what you describe.
Where in Thaumatology is that?
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:36 AM   #8
Randover
 
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Default Re: Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

Well from my point of view good results is combination of ER (every 10 minutes 1 recharges on its own.) And level 15/20 spell discount.

It helds the desireble effect, that casting such spell once is easy casting it million times is unimaginable.
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Old 06-20-2009, 12:39 AM   #9
Black Rose
 
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Default Re: Fatigue Reduction for Spells... Again (sigh)

So... taking all this in. How much would the following disadvantages for Magery be worth, and should they be parsed out differently? My opinions will be [in brackets]:
  • Only for spells with a skill level of 10 or better [I can't see this being better than -5%, and probably more like -1%].
  • Only to raise skill level for purposes of Fatigue Reduction (heck, I could see a similar approach for speaking, gestures, casting time, etc.) [I personally see this as a small part of what Magery does, and think it should therefore be fairly high, like -30% or -40%).
  • Can only be used ("dedicated") with one spell at any given time; once the spell is finished it can be reused [I really like this idea -- that you can make a single spell easier to cast from an FP cost PoV -- and I want to make it work].

I know I could simply give the spellcasters a big ER, but that's not the effect I want to model. I want them to be able to cast spells a bit more easily, but not all of them, and I want there to be a certain amount of thought to which spell to dedicate the points to at any given time.
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Last edited by Black Rose; 06-22-2009 at 05:21 AM. Reason: list didn't come out right
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