Doesn't affect/Immune to

[KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads]

If "something" doesn't affect "someone",it's a "something's" limitations or a "someone's" advantage?For example,suppose elves are immune to ghouls'd paralysis:does elves have Immune to Ghouls' Paralysis,or does ghouls Affliction have Doesn't Affect Elves?

[Kromm]

This is an Accessibility limitation on the attack. The Resistant advantage doesn't narrow down to a single natural weapon of one creature. It stops at a specific syndrome or affliction -- like "paralysis" -- which can be generated by a class of attacks, albeit a narrow class. Thus, if Ghouls can't affect Elves, the Ghouls' attack has Accessibility, Not on Elves, -10%. Only if Elves are immune to all paralysis, including the Ghoul-induced kind, would they have Immunity -- in this case, Immunity to Paralysis [5].

[ArchonShiva]

The generic need not be paid for.

Basically, every generic ability has a zero-point 'doesn't affect stuff not affected by this kind of ability' feature. Say, for example, fire doesn't affect things not affected by fire.

Just the same, every 'someone' package (indluding the zero-point Black-Haired Brown-Eyed Age 22 Caucassian Human Male metatrait) has a built-in zero-point 'not affected by things which do not affect this.' For example, females are not affected by abilities which do not affect females.

Sometimes, a larger class of abilities will have a similar limitation within a modifier with a non-zero cost, such as 'does not affect things not affected by Telepathy' for Telepathy: -10%.

Past that, you pay for the unusual bit. In this case, the ghouls' ability is limited, so it gets a discount for not affecting elves. Or, to put it another way, it's a feature of the paralysis effect that it doesn't affect elves.

If elves were immune to ANY sort of paralysis, then it would be an advantage of elves. A creature immune to metal needs an advantage. A spell that does not affect non-sentients gets a point-break.

Some cases will be less clear-cut. Say you have an ability which does not affect water-dwellers. If it is because it is breath based or anything, it's part of the ability's zero-point feature 'does not affect things that do not breathe.' If, however, it's an ancient power given by a Sea God but which would not harm his own people, it's a limitation on the ability (worth quite little in most settings, possibly just zero-point flavor text, but possibly larger in a sea-based campaign.)

Again, my take. Basically just charge it where it will require the least amount of bookeeping in the long run.

** edit : Kromm got to answer while I worked out my long-winded answer between distractions, but yeah, basically that.

- Archon Shiva

[Anthony]

So, for one of those marginal cases:

Say a paladin has a holy sword, which destroys demons. How does it work?

It's a feature of demons that they're vulnerable to holy items?
It's a feature of the sword that it's exceptionally effective vs demons?
It's a feature of the sword that it's holy, but this has no game mechanics effects other than triggering vulnerability in vulnerable creatures?

[Kuroshima]

It depends:

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's a feature of demons that they're vulnerable to holy items?
It's a feature of the sword that it's holy, but this has no game mechanics effects other than triggering vulnerability in vulnerable creatures?

I don't see any real diference between those 2. Such a sword, I would consider a perk, and give the demon "vulnerability against holly weapons"

It's a feature of the sword that it's exceptionally effective vs demons?

That's a sword with the bane enhancement, and aditional enchantments

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Say a paladin has a holy sword, which destroys demons. How does it work?

It's a feature of demons that they're vulnerable to holy items?
It's a feature of the sword that it's exceptionally effective vs demons?
It's a feature of the sword that it's holy, but this has no game mechanics effects other than triggering vulnerability in vulnerable creatures?

Equipment is special, because it doesn't necessarily have a point cost. As a quick-and-dirty answer, I'd stick with the same logic: Keep specific effects with specific attacks; put general effects on the target.

It could go either way . . . a demon could have Vulnerability (Holy Itemsx2), in which case anything the GM deems holy would hurt more. A sword could have "+3 damage vs. demons" as a property. And both could apply: the demon in the first case hit by the sword in the second case would take (damage+3)x2.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Kromm

This is an Accessibility limitation on the attack. The Resistant advantage doesn't narrow down to a single natural weapon of one creature. It stops at a specific syndrome or affliction -- like "paralysis" -- which can be generated by a class of attacks, albeit a narrow class. Thus, if Ghouls can't affect Elves, the Ghouls' attack has Accessibility, Not on Elves, -10%. Only if Elves are immune to all paralysis, including the Ghoul-induced kind, would they have Immunity -- in this case, Immunity to Paralysis [5].

and to further the Elves Examples Elves would pay for "Immune to Sleep effects" as all sleep effect fail on them 8)

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by Anthony

So, for one of those marginal cases:

Say a paladin has a holy sword, which destroys demons. How does it work?

It's a feature of demons that they're vulnerable to holy items?
It's a feature of the sword that it's exceptionally effective vs demons?
It's a feature of the sword that it's holy, but this has no game mechanics effects other than triggering vulnerability in vulnerable creatures?

Your first and last cases are the same, basically.

I'd phrase it as : Is it a sword which is holy and therefore destroys demons, or a sword which destroys demons and is thus said to be holy.

If the extra damage to the demon is BECAUSE it is holy, and thus a holy chalice gets a damage boost, it's a vulnerability of demons.
If it's holy because it's demon-destroying, then it's a bane enhancement on the sword.
If the sword is both holy and demon-destroying, and these are distinct and independent features, and demons do suffer extra damage from holy weapons, then it is possible for the sword to cause additional damage from both sources. You *CAN* make it worse for the poor things.

Do note that in this context, if the vulnerability lies with demons, we did not go into what makes the sword holy. It could possibly be a feature of the Bless spell, or the result of a 'mundane' sacrament, or even just people saying that it is so, this depends a lot on the game world.

** edit : Okay I'm really getting too many distractions to try to beat Kromm on reply speed today. Kromm: Don't you have a line to edit? (actually, thanks for your continued presence and quick answers, it's very much appreciated.)

- Archon Shiva