Altered Time Rate: Move Only

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

Err... we could use another opinion in here...

(Or even a Kromm opinion!)

I gave mine already, and I don't think your likely to find much support here (i.e., in this thread) for your interpretation. If you want an official opinion, it's best to check with Kromm by PM or email.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

I don't need two bodys to Aim at two different targets with Enhanced Tracking.

That is what enhanced tracking does. It also does not require multiple seperate aim maneuvers or any thing like that.

What is the game mechanics difference? Isn't he using Concentrate, than Concentrate, and Concentrate for the third time? I fail to see where Aim is a physical action, since it acts like Evaluate AND Concentrate (two mental actions) and why CM can't be use in cascading events.

He is concentrating on separate things with CM. It is not concentrate then concentrate then concentrate, it is Mind A concentrates on X, Mind B concentrates on Y, and Mind C concentrates on Z

And since when separate minds can't work together? Oo

They can, but not in the sequential manor that it would require for your suggestions to work.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Rather than attempt to sort out a thread that's gone to 50 posts -- which rarely works out -- I'd like to know the question. Preferably in as few words as possible.

The dispute has many sub issues, but the primary point is does Compartmentalized mind permit mental actions before or after the physical actions done by the body in its non CM actions.

The specific actions are using CM to charge up a spell quickly, aim, and evaluate.

[Erik_Nielsen]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Rather than attempt to sort out a thread that's gone to 50 posts -- which rarely works out -- I'd like to know the question. Preferably in as few words as possible.

Succinctly:
1) Can you use CM to Aim?

2) Can you use CM to Evaluate?

3) If 1 or 2, can you use multiple levels of CM to get multiple Aim or Evaluate bonuses in a single turn?

4) Can you use multiple levels of CM on the same mental task (i.e., to reduce casting time of a spell)?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Erik_Nielsen

1) Can you use CM to Aim?
2) Can you use CM to Evaluate?

No and no. In combat, Compartmentalized Mind is only useful with the Concentrate maneuver. Both Aim and Evaluate assume constant physical correction of your stance and your weapon's attitude. Neither is in any way an invisible, internal act. Combat skills are DX-based, after all (although on those grounds, I might make an exception for an attack that uses the IQ-based Artillery skill, allowing someone to lock on a homing weapon with a mental maneuver).

Originally Posted by Erik_Nielsen

3) If 1 or 2, can you use multiple levels of CM to get multiple Aim or Evaluate bonuses in a single turn?

Obviously not, since the previous answers were negative. Even if they were positive, though, the answer here would be "no." Aim and Evaluate bonuses come from watching what the enemy is doing over time – how he's fighting, where he's moving – and thus don't benefit from a sampling rate higher than his reaction rate. This is basically the same argument used to disallow Feint with Altered Time Rate.

Originally Posted by Erik_Nielsen

4) Can you use multiple levels of CM on the same mental task (i.e., to reduce casting time of a spell)?

Yes. This is wholly mental, and also entirely on your internal clock and not dependent on anybody else's reactions. For this purpose alone, you can think of CM as ATR (Mental actions only). That's why it's very expensive.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yes. This is wholly mental, and also entirely on your internal clock and not dependent on anybody else's reactions. For this purpose alone, you can think of CM as ATR (Mental actions only). That's why it's very expensive.

This seems somewhat at odds with the need to mind control them separately and such, indicating that they are distinct minds and so have simultaneous and not sequential actions.

If you can use them to shorten spell casting times, why do they help you manage the penalties for number of spells active at once?

[Kromm]

I'm just saying that the game system assumes that spells are vectored code, and benefit from parallel processing. This seems likely, given that even Joe Mage without CM can somehow reduce casting time from 4 to 2 to 1 seconds if he's skilled enough. Sure, you could interpret that as taking shortcuts . . . but you could also interpret that as doing several things at once, which is what the rules do.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I'm just saying that the game system assumes that spells are vectored code, and benefit from parallel processing. This seems likely, given that even Joe Mage without CM can somehow reduce casting time from 4 to 2 to 1 seconds if he's skilled enough. Sure, you could interpret that as taking shortcuts . . . but you could also interpret that as doing several things at once, which is what the rules do.

Uh, that's quite some news, actually. Subscribing back to this thread . . .

That seems to mean that unlike ATR, CM allows parallel processing and can be effectively used as true ATR with spells. I thought spells didn't benefit from multiple processors. Does this apply to Standard magic only, or to all Powers, Maledictions etc.?

[Pip Boy]

First of all, thanks for showing up, Kromm and Molokh!

Originally Posted by Kromm

No and no. In combat, Compartmentalized Mind is only useful with the Concentrate maneuver. Both Aim and Evaluate assume constant physical correction of your stance and your weapon's attitude. Neither is in any way an invisible, internal act. Combat skills are DX-based, after all (although on those grounds, I might make an exception for an attack that uses the IQ-based Artillery skill, allowing someone to lock on a homing weapon with a mental maneuver).

Ok, the guys were telling me that. What I can't see is how aiming -- a constant physical correction of your stance, as you put -- is different from, say, dancing intricate movements is order to do a dance-aspected spell, or reciting verbal enchantments and words of power. If that's allowed in Concentrate, why correcting your stance isn't in Aim?

Originally Posted by Kromm

Obviously not, since the previous answers were negative. Even if they were positive, though, the answer here would be "no." Aim and Evaluate bonuses come from watching what the enemy is doing over time – how he's fighting, where he's moving – and thus don't benefit from a sampling rate higher than his reaction rate. This is basically the same argument used to disallow Feint with Altered Time Rate.

Then again, if I'd had purelly ATR, I could Aim at someone, couldn't I? So, a pd with ATR 3, could Aim, Aim, Aim, and finally shoot. He isn't likely watching what the enemy is doing over time.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yes. This is wholly mental, and also entirely on your internal clock and not dependent on anybody else's reactions. For this purpose alone, you can think of CM as ATR (Mental actions only). That's why it's very expensive.

That is one of the exemples I gave. So a Mage with CM 3 could use "Mind A" to cast Fireball, "Mind B" to enlarge it, "Mind C" to cast another Fireball on the other hand, and "Normal Mind" to enlarge it, right?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

First of all, thanks for showing up, Kromm and Molokh!

And now that you say this, I'm really wondering what good did I do to deserve it, for I didn't even summon Kromm this time. I mostly lurked, unsubscribed, and returned.