DF: Switchable perk?

[Evil Roy Slade]

A player in my DF game wants to play a Celestial without the Celestial Nimbus perk, saying that it will make him too visible in a dungeon and, if anything, should be a disadvantage. My feeling is that once you pull away the nimbus, Celestials are just that much closer to being very fit and bright humans who are bafflingly prone to being attacked by demons. I think that on balance it is an advantage, as unlike the torches and lanterns everyone else carries, his light source will not take a hand, does not run out of fuel, and does not get dropped and extinguished at inconvenient times. He counters that he wants to play a thief, and it makes some skills like Stealth and Camouflage impossible.

IDNHMBWM, but would it work to rethink the thing as not being Always On, but possibly an advantage he can suppress for, say, one FP per minute? This would allow the character to be sneaky and skulk around in the shadows for a bit. Or is the glow part of the reason Celestials don't tend to become thieves?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade

IDNHMBWM, but would it work to rethink the thing as not being Always On, but possibly an advantage he can suppress for, say, one FP per minute? This would allow the character to be sneaky and skulk around in the shadows for a bit. Or is the glow part of the reason Celestials don't tend to become thieves?

The glow would be part of the reason Celestials don't tend to become thieves, yes. That's the only template it's a significant disadvantage for; it's a mild disad for scouts, but in the daytime I still wouldn't give you a huge bonus to notice someone hiding in a bush with the glow of a torch or less. At night, yes, it's a problem, but for the most part it has more utility by preventing darkness penalties without requiring the character to buy 9 levels of Night Vision.

If the player prefers to look at it this way, it's like having a lot of levels of Night Vision and a disadvantage that cancels all but one point of the cost by making him shiny.

I wouldn't let him be a "dark" celestial because it seems against the theme of the race. Make him play a half-demon instead :D

[Kromm]

I was hesitant to allow the equivalent of Accessory (Flashlight) in a fantasy setting without flashlights, on the grounds that it was too powerful for the price, but then I decided that glow vials and Continual Light amounted to the same thing. The key realization is that it's about 8 points cheaper than Night Vision 9, yet almost as useful except in the one situation where you want to sneak around in the dark . . . and probably more useful to your allies. That offsets any Supernatural Features-like drawbacks it has -- and the fact that it has no downside in town, where one of the Good Guys is generally welcome, cinches it.

But grousing about how it makes you a crummy thief is two things:

1. Whining. Pixies are lousy warriors, orcs make appallingly bad bards, and wildmen just don't cut it as artificers. So . . . don't take those jobs. If the player won't stop crying, let him take a quirk, "Defective celestial nimbus," and then make that hose him occasionally. This is DF -- some adversariality is expected!

2. Putting "thief" in a tiny little box and duct-taping it shut. So he's no good at using Stealth in the dark . . . and? There are still locks to pick, traps to disarm, and obstacles to be climbed, edged across, and hurdled. There are still encounters in areas lit considerably brighter than torchlight -- like, say, magically lit areas or outdoors under the sun. And in total underground dark, a human thief can't see at all, even with Night Vision (which requires at least some light), so it isn't like he's going to be stealthy either.

[transmetahuman]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I wouldn't let him be a "dark" celestial because it seems against the theme of the race. Make him play a half-demon instead :D

Yeah, if celestials glow, they glow. How would you react to someone who is creating an NBA basketball star character and says "but I want him to be a halfling"?

So many problems get caused because GMs confuse "there are all these cool tools in GURPS' modular toolkit" with "I have to allow every permutation of all these cool tools in GURPS' modular toolkit, unless it's obviously unbalancing".

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade

A player in my DF game wants to play a Celestial [...] wants to play a thief [...]

Explain to him that he's making incompatible choices here for the default definitions of "Celestial" (beautiful, glowing, visibly supernatural force of Good) and "thief" (nighttime stealth expert who sneaks around at the very edge of Evil), and that since the former is a hardcoded race while the latter is merely a learned profession, any tweaking needed to make the two fit together has to be to the "thief" part. He can play a non-stealthy, nice-guy thief who emphasizes helping his allies by removing locks, traps, and other obstacles. He can play a daytime thief who sneaks around brightly lit places and uses his "Good guy" heritage to deceive people ("Well met, my good man. I was sent by the gods to watch over your gold shipment here."). And so on. However, nothing says that the hardcoded traits of a race should be worth X disadvantage points, or be disadvantageous at all, before it's acceptable for them to deny a PC certain professions; e.g., Feathers, Flight (Winged), Sharp Beak, and Talons are all advantages, but pretty much rule out Hawk Men ever being good impersonators in a mammal-filled fantasy world.

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade

IDNHMBWM, but would it work to rethink the thing as not being Always On, but possibly an advantage he can suppress for, say, one FP per minute?

Go ahead and allow that, but then it's worth 2 points instead of 1, I think. Just call it another perk that stacks with Celestial Nimbus. I'd be silly and call it "Lampshade."

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade

Or is the glow part of the reason Celestials don't tend to become thieves?

It's part of the reason why they don't become night-operating sneak thieves, yeah. It does nothing to interfere with the other 95% of what thieves do. I'm being a little sarcastic here because I think that a player who can only see the sneaking-around-at-night side of thieves really has more of an assassin type in mind, leaping from shadows to kill, and that really isn't all that fitting for a half-angel. Personally, I'd enjoy playing a Celestial descended from a radiant servant of the God of Craft and Cunning, using my agility and disarming good looks to engage in thievery, and just dispensing with hiding in shadows.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Yeah, if celestials glow, they glow. How would you react to someone who is creating an NBA basketball star character and says "but I want him to be a halfling"?

That's my take on it. Someone with a switchable nimbus is not a Celestial... it might be a Thing from Beyond Time and Space, and should not be trusted in any case.

Outside of the context of DF, a Celestial Nimbus would probably just be a 0 point Feature. A Perk like that would be switchable by default (cf. Accessory).

[Harald387]

The Celestial I play in one of our DF games doesn't bother with stealth. He has party members who do that instead, while he stands there as a big, glowing, DR 13 distraction. If you're going to pick a race, play to its strengths.

[Evil Roy Slade]

Thanks for all the input. As Kromm divined, he is more leaning towards the assassin type, so it looks like now he has decided on... leprechaun assassin. Or as he put it:

"Top o' the mornin' to ya!"

*stabs you in the eye*

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade

Thanks for all the input. As Kromm divined, he is more leaning towards the assassin type, so it looks like now he has decided on... leprechaun assassin. Or as he put it:

"Top o' the mornin' to ya!"

*stabs you in the eye*

Hey, if he can reach the eye, more power to 'im.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade

Thanks for all the input. As Kromm divined, he is more leaning towards the assassin type, so it looks like now he has decided on... leprechaun assassin. Or as he put it:

"Top o' the mornin' to ya!"

*stabs you in the eye*

That's a bit of a shame. Although difficult, it would be possible to play a sneak even with the perpetual torch. Provided you're in an area with brighter ambient light than you produce, the aura could actually prove to be a great boon - you'd likely have a less pronounced shadow. And of course, nobody would suspect the Messenger from Heaven when the baron ends up murdered in his own private garden - not even the baron.

Of course, if you want to go with the stereotypical Master of Shadows, Celestial certainly isn't the race to be!