Who are the Imbued?

[vitruvian]

They are built in a Skill-like, but they do not remotely speak to the concept of people who are highy skilled. They ACT like powers, not skills.

The same could be said of many of the cinematic skills allowed by TBAM or Weapon Master. After all, if a Bank Shot or Penetrating Strike Imbuement doesn't seem like a skill to you due to costing fatigue, what about Power Blow or Flying Leap? Those cost FP, too.

Leaving aside the issue of FP costs, there are plenty of Imbuements that can be conceived of as simply advanced cinematic skills... Arching Shot, Bank Shot, Crippling Blow, Far Shot, Forceful Blow, Penetrating Blow, Stealthy Attack, Stupefying Blow, Supreme Control, Fatiguing Strike, all fit this paradigm. Others might need to be justified under the rubric of chi-based skills, magic, or superpowers.

For Green Arrow or Hawkeye, Imbuements with a *lot* of different Imbuement specialized on Bow would be one possible way of handling all his trick arrows, with the special effect for the more outre effects being that he simply always has the right tip for his arrows in his quiver, whether he needs to go electric, stunning, explosive, binding, or what have you. Alternative means would include doing his trick arrows as Innate Attacks (a series of AAs, in fact) that just happen to use Bow skill instead of Innate Attack skill (a 0 pt Feature, since Bow is harder than Innate Attack anyway); it's just that the Imbuement route may be easier and doesn't lead to questions about which rules for shooting bows do and don't apply. Even going that route, you might need a few Innate Attacks for things like *large* explosions, or anything needing a larger number of basic damage dice - unless you allow Power Blow with Bow, perhaps.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

For Green Arrow or Hawkeye, Imbuements with a *lot* of different Imbuement specialized on Bow would be one possible way of handling all his trick arrows, with the special effect for the more outre effects being that he simply always has the right tip for his arrows in his quiver, whether he needs to go electric, stunning, explosive, binding, or what have you. .

I wouldn't go with imbuements for the gadget arrows because conventional gadgets do it just fine. But for the impossible superhero shots? They might work nicely.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Leaving aside the issue of FP costs, there are plenty of Imbuements that can be conceived of as simply advanced cinematic skills...

Even not leaving aside the issue of FP costs, this is true. Breaking Blow, Flying Leap, Kiai, Power Blow, and for that matter Enthrallment skills . . . all cost FP. On some level, Imbuement Skills are just a generalized treatment of something that cinematic martial-arts skills kinda, sorta cover.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

If Powers isn't consistent (which I disagree with), wouldn't that be an indicator that it's broken? If it needed Imbuements to be effective, then Powers' claims to be a coherent universal system were mistaken.

The mistake is to suggest that Powers ever claimed to be the be-all, end-all, do-everything rules set for GURPS. I wrote it, and I don't recall ever making such a claim. I would agree that Powers presents itself as the ne plus ultra of advantage-based design for GURPS, but attributes, disadvantages, features, meta-traits, perks, quirks, racial templates, secondary characteristics, skills, taboo traits, and techniques are all part of the system, too. And some things can be handled through advantages or one of these other elements. Even the author of Powers isn't so full of himself as to claim GURPS should be "all Powers, all the time" . . . on the contrary, I think that would be bad.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Even the author of Powers isn't so full of himself as to claim GURPS should be "all Powers, all the time" . . . on the contrary, I think that would be bad.

That just goes to show that authors aren't always their own best critics *runs*

heh

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The mistake is to suggest that Powers ever claimed to be the be-all, end-all, do-everything rules set for GURPS.

You are responding to something I did not say. You quoted me correctly, saying: "...Powers' claims to be a coherent universal system."

I did not say "the be-all, end-all, do-everything rules set".

In any event, the web page for the Powers book in the Generic Universal Role Playing System says the following:

"Here's everything you need to create every kind of amazing, off-the-chart superhero you can imagine . . . as well as amazing wizards, wuxia fighters, shamans who command spirits . . . even gods!"

Silly me.

But anyway, I'll bow out of this discussion now, since obviously it's a very touchy subject.

[Jeffr0]

(Feeding the Troll; sorry)

Dude, Powers can do anything.

It just does some things better than others.

Imbuements is just one more approach that's a little different and that may be a little better at modeling things than the Magic Rules or the Powers rules in some cases.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

I won't, but it still causes trouble with the rule set.

No it doesn't. Just because YOU see them as troubling is fixed by those first two words above: you won't (use Imbuments). ALL of your issues are solved. If you're troubled by the fact that other folks here DON'T forbid them in their games you are in what's called a SOL situation.

Who's worked up? People who tell others to 'grow up' because they don't like the discussion seem to be fairly worked up to me.

My read on your posts is that you're getting too close to saying the way you play GURPS is the way it's played by and large, and anyone who would dare bring this... this... excremental set of rules into their game is a twinky munchkiny powergamer rules lawyer.

You haven't crossed that line however. Just getting a bit too close to it. I won't tell you to 'grow up', which was uncalled for, but I will ask you to tone things down just a bit.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Jeffr0

(Feeding the Troll; sorry)

I don't think he's trolling...

I think both he and you make reasonable points, and are engaged in the time honored tradition of agreeing more than you realize. I think, myself, that Powers ought to have been able to cover the stuff Imbuements did, but since no one really thought of it at the time, it remained clunky. Imbuements simplifies it. It's an alternate route, easier for some things but useless for others, just like Magic vs. Powers.

[David Johnston2]

[QUOTE=Figleaf23]

You are responding to something I did not say. You quoted me correctly, saying: "...Powers' claims to be a coherent universal system."

I did not say "the be-all, end-all, do-everything rules set".

You did however suggest that it was "broken" if it couldn't do one particular thing very well.

In any event, the web page for the Powers book in the Generic Universal Role Playing System says the following:

"Here's everything you need to create every kind of amazing, off-the-chart superhero you can imagine . . . as well as amazing wizards, wuxia fighters, shamans who command spirits . . . even gods!"

Everything you need isn't necessarily anything you might want.

Silly me.

But anyway, I'll bow out of this discussion now, since obviously it's a very touchy subject.

It's not so much a touchy subject as you were getting rather rude about it. Still it's a pity. I was so looking forward to seeing your design for an electric touch that duplicates what the embuement does. It can be done if you feel like putting the work into it.