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Old 07-07-2008, 10:14 PM   #1
robertsconley
 
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Default The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by knarf
However, I get the sneaking suspicion that you're thinking of something much more D&D like, with challenge ratings, treasure tables and whatnot. I wouldn't buy something like that.
Treasure table sure, challenge rating nah. If I had the project the rough outline would roughly look like

Introduction

Character Creation
Lots of Character Templates
Skills, Advantages, Disads, etc
at least everything that is used in the above template

Combat
Basic
Advanced
(Focused on medieval combat)

Magic
About same quantity as in GURPS 1st Edition Magic.
Rules system for Arcane, Druidic, Bardic, and Clerical magic.

Monsters
Every monster that in the D20 SRD that can be reasonably used. An important sidebar will be how to figure out how difficult an encounter will be. Nothing like a Challenge Rating but more like the advice of experienced GM.

Treasure
Yes Treasure Tables and descriptions

Starting Setting
Something as complex and fleshed out as Keep on the Borderland/Cave of Chaos or 4th edition's Fallcrest/Kobold's Lair. The centerpiece will be a honest to god key dungeon.

Do this in 256 pages. Sell it along side the other GURPS Books. Have three 32 to 64 pages adventures available as well. This is not a replacement but rather the entry point to the larger GURPS line.

Space and Horror would be done the same way. Plus any other genres that SJ Games would think work.

With this a Person can pick up a complete ready to run RPG that is GURPS.

Rob Conley

P.S. Points of Lights, a project I am working with Goodman Games on, the Swamps of Acheron chapter originated from my GURPS fantasy campaign. It was run around 1992. That campaign originated from my Judges Guild Wilderland campaign that was run under AD&D in the early 80's. In short I had some experience running a D&D style world using GURPS.

http://www.goodman-games.com/4380preview.html
http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/imag...nd_preview.jpg

Last edited by robertsconley; 07-07-2008 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

1. I'd buy this
2. I'd force each and every one of my players at gunpoint to buy this
3. I'd run this
4. I'd love to write stuff for this (especially setting-wise)
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

P.S.: make it 272 pages (like Thaumatology)
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

Good idea.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:23 AM   #5
robkelk
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsconley
Treasure table sure, challenge rating nah. If I had the project the rough outline would roughly look like

Introduction

Character Creation
Lots of Character Templates
Skills, Advantages, Disads, etc
at least everything that is used in the above template

Combat
Basic
Advanced
(Focused on medieval combat)

Magic
About same quantity as in GURPS 1st Edition Magic.
Rules system for Arcane, Druidic, Bardic, and Clerical magic.

Monsters
Every monster that in the D20 SRD that can be reasonably used. An important sidebar will be how to figure out how difficult an encounter will be. Nothing like a Challenge Rating but more like the advice of experienced GM.

Treasure
Yes Treasure Tables and descriptions

Starting Setting
Something as complex and fleshed out as Keep on the Borderland/Cave of Chaos or 4th edition's Fallcrest/Kobold's Lair. The centerpiece will be a honest to god key dungeon.
Looking at this list, I have one reaction:

If I wanted to play D&D, I'd buy and play D&D.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by robkelk
Looking at this list, I have one reaction:

If I wanted to play D&D, I'd buy and play D&D.
I disagree on this totally. For people wanting to run dungeon fantasy style games with better rules, I'd use GURPS. And as for D&D and me, they did the impossible, get me to hate an edition. Sure D&D isn't perfect, far from that. But making me, a D&D nostalgic fan, hate an edition and make me stop visiting their website entirely, is a "tour de force". And with the argument that I can stick with 3e, what's the use ? All their future releases will be 4e only. They made 3e obsolete.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:46 AM   #7
robkelk
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collective_Restraint
I disagree on this totally. For people wanting to run dungeon fantasy style games with better rules, I'd use GURPS. And as for D&D and me, they did the impossible, get me to hate an edition. Sure D&D isn't perfect, far from that. But making me, a D&D nostalgic fan, hate an edition and make me stop visiting their website entirely, is a "tour de force". And with the argument that I can stick with 3e, what's the use ? All their future releases will be 4e only. They made 3e obsolete.
Speaking as someone who still happily runs Windows 2000 on my home computer, I can't see how lack of vendor support makes it impossible to use a product.

The older D&D rules are still there. They aren't going away unless somebody destroys the books they're printed in. There's so much supplementary material available that even the most insecure DM (who wants hand-holding for everything) isn't going to lack any new material for years. Why switch?
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:49 AM   #8
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collective_Restraint
I disagree on this totally. For people wanting to run dungeon fantasy style games with better rules, I'd use GURPS. And as for D&D and me, they did the impossible, get me to hate an edition. Sure D&D isn't perfect, far from that. But making me, a D&D nostalgic fan, hate an edition and make me stop visiting their website entirely, is a "tour de force". And with the argument that I can stick with 3e, what's the use ? All their future releases will be 4e only. They made 3e obsolete.
But GURPS Dungeon Fantasy throws away some of the best features of GURPS, by making templates mandatory and putting other similar restraints on character advancement.

It would be so much better, inifinitely better, if niche protection was an emergent feature of the rules system, rather than something that needs to be artificially imposed on the metagame level.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by robkelk
Looking at this list, I have one reaction:

If I wanted to play D&D, I'd buy and play D&D.
It not D&D.

It is GURPS Character, with GURPS Combat Rules, using the GURPS Magic system and treasure derived from said magic system. Along with a full roster of orcs, goblins, doppelgangers, and other monsters written up using GURPS stats.

The templates would be similar to those in Dungeon Fantasy but oriented to the standard 150 pt "starting" character. Of course low 75 pt option should be present as well as high DF option 250 pts.

Running D&D style fantasy under GURPS is distinctly different than running D&D. It is gritter, and you have a ton more options.

The advantage of a combined book is that there is only one $35 to $45 book to buy to run a full fantasy GURPS. It has a one to one correspondence to the elements of D&D yet still is GURPS.

The setting/adventure would be similar to a dozen other D&D adventure modules. The point is to sell the GURPS RULES to the most common type of roleplayer. In the Game Store not just the internet. The idea is that once the player is comfortable with the GURPS Rule then they would gravitate to the rest of the line.

Note that you can see this with the D20 ruleset of D&D. With D20 Modern, and other games like Mutants & Masterminds it is really easy for a D&D player to try out other Genres. My past experience with local role-players is bear this observation out.

There is no reason that GURPS should be disadvantaged in this regard. IMO it is a better designed ruleset that works better with more genres than D20.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen
But GURPS Dungeon Fantasy throws away some of the best features of GURPS, by making templates mandatory and putting other similar restraints on character advancement.

It would be so much better, inifinitely better, if niche protection was an emergent feature of the rules system, rather than something that needs to be artificially imposed on the metagame level.
I agree somewhat.

The Complete GURPS Dungeon Fantasy should not be a D&D emulator. That would be a mistake. The default presentation should be the GURPS style.

There should be three major options in the Character Creation section

1) The default templates used for 150 pt characters.

2) The low point template used for realistic NPCs or low powered campaigns.

3) The DF 250 pt templates for D&D style high fantasy. Also useful for the making the Big Bad.

Probably #1 and #3 can be combined somewhat if space is tight. I.e. here what you normally use. The next paragraph would have the options for 250 points.
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