Flexibility and Acrobatics

[Icewoman]

I was just wondering why the Flexibility advantage does not help out the Acrobatics skill? It seems like a perfect fit.

[Stupid Jedi]

I second this point, and I would also add Dancing to this. Many acrobatic feats and dance moves are not even possible without a level of flexibility far beyond what is considered normal.

[vicky_molokh]

It should modify certain techniques, but certainly not the whole skill. While a backflip looks more impressive with higher flexibility, a simple roll looks identical.

Besides, Flexibility (the first level) is an Übertalent anyway. If you need either of Climbing, Escape or Erotic Art, it's already more productive to take Flexibility, for a grand +3 at a mere [5].

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Icewoman

I was just wondering why the Flexibility advantage does not help out the Acrobatics skill? It seems like a perfect fit.

I think it should help contortion and appropriate performance skills, but not acrobatics itself.

[tbone]

My old online house rules tacked a +1 onto Acrobatics for (3e) Flexibility. (GURPS History Trivia: In 3e, Flexibility was the 15-pt trait, with Double-Jointed 5 pts, the reverse of 4e. To make things more fun, 3e had an Extra Flexibility trait that cost less than Flexibility!)

I can see keeping the +1 for Flexibility (and Double-Jointed) in 4e too. It'd be most appropriate for specific acrobatic techniques, not every use of Acrobatics, as pointed out – but for simplicity, meh, why not just +1 Acrobatics. It's hardly abusive, I'd say.

Dancing? I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense for plenty of styles. All-round +1 for simplicity?

Feats of contortion? For that, I could see the full +3 and +5, easily.

[Bruno]

Offhand, I don't see how Flexibility will help doing cartwheels, human pyramids, tightrope walking, or the high-bars.

There are a lot of applications of Acrobatics that wouldn't apply... but obviously there are SOME applications where it should.

It should not be applied globally.

I don't think I'd allow the full bonus on an Acrobatic Attack or Acrobatic Dodge, but a halved bonus sounds fair enough.

[Kromm]

Flexibility might well aid gymnastics. However, most of Acrobatics is about two things in practice: (1) taking falls, in that it reduces falling damage and gives a Breakfall default, and (2) flashy dodges in combat. Neither is gymnastics. Both are entirely to do with balance (whence the Perfect Balance bonus) and timing. You could rename the skill something like "Dodges and Rolls" and get a more accurate name for it, although that would be confusing in its own right ("Do I use it instead of Dodge?" "Which rolls?").

Contortion is neat, but covered by Escape (which already gets a bonus), not Acrobatics.

Flexibility would aid some but not all dances, so whether it affects a given Dancing roll will depend on the dance. It would not, for instance, do much for your typical sword dance or highland fling, or Zulu war dance. I could see it helping with some forms of Latin dance and with belly dancing.

[Stupid Jedi]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Flexibility might well aid gymnastics. However, most of Acrobatics is about two things in practice: (1) taking falls, in that it reduces falling damage and gives a Breakfall default, and (2) flashy dodges in combat. Neither is gymnastics. Both are entirely to do with balance (whence the Perfect Balance bonus) and timing. You could rename the skill something like "Dodges and Rolls" and get a more accurate name for it, although that would be confusing in its own right ("Do I use it instead of Dodge?" "Which rolls?").

Contortion is neat, but covered by Escape (which already gets a bonus), not Acrobatics.

Flexibility would aid some but not all dances, so whether it affects a given Dancing roll will depend on the dance. It would not, for instance, do much for your typical sword dance or highland fling, or Zulu war dance. I could see it helping with some forms of Latin dance and with belly dancing.

Could it be that a combination of GURPS abilities is required to simulate certain feats. Gymnastics could simply require a high Acrobatics combined with the Flexibility advantage; or certain Acrobatics techniques (such as Gymnastics) might have a prerequisite of Flexibility? The same could apply to Dance (especially Ballet -- you cannot perform Ballet without having Flexibility).

[smurf]

I used Expert Skill for contortionist.

And the character is really flexible.

Really contortionism is not related to acrobatics.

[Icewoman]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Flexibility might well aid gymnastics.

I think this is what I was actually thinking of when I posted, since acrobatics in the vernacular is often used interchangeably with gymnastics. However, it is really only a subset of Acrobatics (GURPS skill). Semantics, but important. Thanks for the clarification.