Big Bows?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

However, ST 40 has 16 times the lifting ability of the average adult human male.

Yep and while he could be firing 2 oz. arrows at 4x the normal velocity (he'd be somewhere around 800-1000 feet per second) I'm not quite sure how you get bows and bow strings to snap back that fast.

So it might be more likely that he's shooting 2 _pound_ arrows (16x mass) at 200-250 feet per second.

You could probably get up to 4 lb arrows for a ST 55-60 bow by making them out of solid steel. You'd have to give them a high armor divisor even at low velocity of course. They'd have a huge ratio of mass to frontal cross-section..

Meanwhile that 9mm bullet only weighs 1/3rd of an oz at 1000-1100 fps. Anyway I do the math the arrows for the ST 40 bow have more kinetic energy.

[JAW]

Originally Posted by Fhaolan

While this isn't in the 4ed rules, as far as I can find, I would apply this: Crossbows have a fixed ST, while bows have a max ST. Weaker people can pull strong bows, but can't pull them to their proper extent. Stronger people can pull weaker bows, but are restricted to the bow's ST unless they overpull the bow. Overpulling a bow will increase the bow's effective ST by +2 for that one shot, but will permanently reduce it's max ST by -4 after being loosed as the bow staves will warp and weaken. Overpulling past ST+2 will break the bow.

Yeah, I just made up that overpulling bit up off the top of my head, but it matches my personal experience with bows. I don't know if the numbers are reasonable yet. Have to play with it a bit to refine the idea.

I suppose one needs longer than normal arrows for overpulling. Or are normal bows & arrows designed so that one can damage the bow by pulling it to the normal full length of the arrow??
And for longbows one might need longer arms..

I think that bows should have both min and max strenght. What's their difference could debend on the bow's structure. I'm puzled about modern compound bows - they should have lover min strenght as they are not as hard to keep pulled while aiming - yet they should not have major difference in min and max strenght. And they could be more powerful than medieval bows in the same time..

[Icewoman]

There should be a provision for several different "strength" arrows to match that of the bow. Using a regular arrow with too strong a bow should result in a broken arrow with splinters everywhere.

My husband has a story that he tells:

One day at camp he saw the Archery Instructor using his personal bow at the range. This was a bow that had a much greater "pull" than the regular target bows the campers used. The Instructor accidently pulled out one of the regular target arrows instead of the ones he normally used. The result? A shattered arrow and splinters everywhere, including his arm.

Remember that arrows flex several times after release. It is quite dramatic when seen in slow motion.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Kromm's mentioned on the forums before that bows were meant to have fixed ST as well as crossbows. The wording got vagued up in the editing process.

. . . and fixed in the latest printing and latest PDF.

--

Anyway, bows and crossbows have two relevant ST scores:

The ST of the individual bow. This is in effect an abstract measurement of the bow's draw. It determines the ST needed to cock a crossbow quickly without tools, or to draw a bow at all. All archers and most crossbowmen will choose bow ST equal to their own (Arm ST, Striking ST, and the Strongbow perk all modify ST for this purpose). Some crossbowmen will go for a larger ST if they don't have to cock their weapon in combat.

The ST of the weapon class. This sets the minimum and maximum draw of a that kind of weapon, given its weight. For a lesser or greater draw, you'll need a scaled-down or scaled-up bow that weighs less or more. This is the ST stat given on the weapon tables: 7 for crossbows and short bows, 10 for regular and composite bows, and 11 for longbows. If your ST is below this, you cannot have a bow of this class made for your ST. And no matter how strong you are, the usual limit of triple the ST stat applies to damage-dealing. Thus, draw ranges are 7-21 for crossbows and short bows, 10-30 for regular and composite bows, and 11-33 for longbows.

Of course, there are all manner of ballistas and other giant crossbows out there that can accommodate higher ST. For instance, the 110-lb. scorpion on p. B281 . . .

[Verjigorm]

However, ST 40 has 16 times the lifting ability of the average adult human male. I think that you'll find that comes in way beyond the capacity of the biggest heavyweight weightlifter. That's really not "rigorous realism".

What's not realistic about robots?

[Anaraxes]

What's not realistic about robots?

Archer robots. With giant-sized bows, and four-pound arrows. Made from depleted uranium. From the future, hunting down Iain Concobhar, so that his descents won't be able later to stop the Restoration of the monarchy.

[smurf]

If your ST is below this, you cannot have a bow of this class made for your ST. And no matter how strong you are, the usual limit of triple the ST stat applies to damage-dealing. Thus, draw ranges are 7-21 for crossbows and short bows, 10-30 for regular and composite bows, and 11-33 for longbows.

Thanks, I thought it would be this...

Possible typo on page B270, 'muscle powered' instead of 'melee' weapons. This would have not raised my question in the first place, if it was defined correctly it would make sense. But hey, upteen thousands of words, no chance of getting them all right :)

Hence the Cross bow is limited to a lower higher damage range than that of a Comp. Bow which is less than a Longbow.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by smurf

Hence the Cross bow is limited to a lower higher damage range than that of a Comp. Bow which is less than a Longbow.

The generic "6-lb. crossbow" is, yes. Lots of huge crossbows won't be. In real life, there were some fairly amazingly monstrous crossbows . . . but most weighed a little more.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Kromm

. . . and fixed in the latest printing and latest PDF.

--

Of which book?

I'm assuming Martial Arts, but one can never be too sure.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Of which book?

I'm assuming Martial Arts, but one can never be too sure.

Considering the error is in the Basic Set, I'd hope the correction was there as well. Characters, equipment section, I'd guess.