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Old 02-01-2008, 03:31 AM   #1
Christian
 
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Default Unlimited Use

OK, there is the very usefull limitation of limited use, allowing to get an advantage from "always" down to "once per day" for -40% and even to once per week = once per session for a further -35%. So for -75% you go from "always" to "once per session".

But what about the other way around? How to enhance advantages that are "once per session per level" to "once per day" or even "always"?

The purely mathematical opposite of the -75% for sure is to small, being +300% only.

But +600% to get it from once a week/session to once a day seems an logical. And another +1000% to get it from once a day to 11 times a day, which is equivalent to "always" is also logical.

On the other hand, imagine a Wild Talent (Reliable 10 +50%, Retention +25%, Unlimited Use 16 +1600%) for the "low" price of 355 CP. You could use any skill in existence whenever you want at Attribute+10, and even learn it straight away. Overpowered?

What do you think, how to use such an "Unlimited Use" enhancement, and what cost should it have?
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

The only advantages I can think of that do per session already have bulit in modifiers for multiple times..

Gizmos (where the price is PER)

and

Super Luck (where you have to buy it again for each additional times per day)

Seems like putting "as much as yout want" on either of these would be an INFITINITE % enhancement.

If there are other per-session advantages they would probably follow this as well. Really, I think taking either one hundred times should be sufficient.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:12 AM   #3
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

Follow the lead of Super Luck:

From p. 80 of Powers: ". . . the GM might permit higher levels: Super Luck 2 [200] works every 30 minutes, Super Luck 3 [300] works every 15 minutes, and so on, with each level halving the time between uses."

From p. 119 of Powers: "In most games, 12 or 13 levels [...] suffice to affect every die roll."

That is, since Super Luck works every hour -- or 3,600 seconds -- of real-world time, taking 11 extra levels (a total of 12, for 1,200 points) lets it work every 3,600/2^11 = 1.8 seconds, while taking 12 extra levels (a total of 13, for 1,300 points) lets it work every 3,600/2^12 = 0.9 seconds. Unless you roll more than once per second or two, this will do.

The same logic could be applied anywhere else real time is used to judge how often an ability works, really. Or you could just say "Super Luck is the ultimate example, so 'Cosmic, Unlimited Uses' is +1,200% everywhere."

I wouldn't allow this on any advantage where each level buys one use instead of reducing the time between a potentially unlimited number of uses, though. That's Gizmos, Serendipity, and Wild Talent. There, I'd honestly say that if you want to be able to invoke the ability each time the GM gives you an opening to do something, you should take as many levels as you think you'll need. With my own five-hour game sessions with each player getting to do something roughly every five minutes, that's about 60 levels -- Gizmos 60 [300], Serendipity 60 [900], Wild Talent 60 [1,200], etc.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:55 AM   #4
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

Hmhm, x60 or better x70 would work also very well with the way from "once a week" to "10 times a day", as you'd need 70 uses to be able to use it 10 times a day at 7 days.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:04 AM   #5
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Follow the lead of Super Luck:

From p. 80 of Powers: ". . . the GM might permit higher levels: Super Luck 2 [200] works every 30 minutes, Super Luck 3 [300] works every 15 minutes, and so on, with each level halving the time between uses."

From p. 119 of Powers: "In most games, 12 or 13 levels [...] suffice to affect every die roll."

That is, since Super Luck works every hour -- or 3,600 seconds -- of real-world time, taking 11 extra levels (a total of 12, for 1,200 points) lets it work every 3,600/2^11 = 1.8 seconds, while taking 12 extra levels (a total of 13, for 1,300 points) lets it work every 3,600/2^12 = 0.9 seconds. Unless you roll more than once per second or two, this will do.

The same logic could be applied anywhere else real time is used to judge how often an ability works, really. Or you could just say "Super Luck is the ultimate example, so 'Cosmic, Unlimited Uses' is +1,200% everywhere."

I wouldn't allow this on any advantage where each level buys one use instead of reducing the time between a potentially unlimited number of uses, though. That's Gizmos, Serendipity, and Wild Talent. There, I'd honestly say that if you want to be able to invoke the ability each time the GM gives you an opening to do something, you should take as many levels as you think you'll need. With my own five-hour game sessions with each player getting to do something roughly every five minutes, that's about 60 levels -- Gizmos 60 [300], Serendipity 60 [900], Wild Talent 60 [1,200], etc.
At Super Luck 12, for 1,200 points, the most limitations you can apply will reduce it to 240 points, which is pretty considerable.

It may sound like an odd thing to say, but if I want to lift the "per hour" restriction and replace it with a fatigue cost or some horrible nuisance effect ("You may dictate fate, but everytime you do, someone near you dies!"), and while these could be even more inhibiting than limiting it to once per hour, it will necessarily cost more.

I rather wish some abilities had been dismantled a little so we could rework them a bit more, and the Luck traits are a pretty good example of that.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka
I rather wish some abilities had been dismantled a little so we could rework them a bit more, and the Luck traits are a pretty good example of that.
I have no idea what you are talking about here. Dismantled from what?
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Serendipity 60 [900], Wild Talent 60 [1,200], etc.
Hmm. Serendipity 60, Wild Talent 60, and Super Luck 15...

Making 3200 points the official cost of omnipotence in GURPS.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by LemmingLord
I have no idea what you are talking about here. Dismantled from what?
I think he's talking about looking "under the hood" to see what assumptions went into making Super Luck 100 points to begin with. If you understand how the totals were reached, you can take it apart, make changes that you want to make more elegantly, and put it back together with a shiny new point total.

Mailanka, am I even in the ballpark? Or did I just critically fail my Telepathy roll?
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

The assumptions were, "Gee, this is really powerful -- 100 points seems about right." It wasn't "assembled" from anything, so it's hard to imagine what it would mean to dismantle it.

Delusion ("There a secret system behind the system that the designers used to give prices to advantages!") is common, but a Delusion nonetheless. Pricing systems, such as they are, appear in the rulebooks for all to see. Anything that just gets a price without a system was wished into being by designer fiat. The "system" is the centuries of combined game-design experience possessed by the many writers who've worked on GURPS since 1986. Or tossing darts. One of those.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Unlimited Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Delusion ("There a secret system behind the system that the designers used to give prices to advantages!") is common, but a Delusion nonetheless.
There's also:
Delusion ("Thaumatology will have a complete system for creating spells, balancing them and being 100% sure they are as good as official")

Yeah, right! I'm onto you, you shceaming RPG people! I'll find that system, and then I'll publish it for all the world to see, and the Philosopher's Stone of RPG system writing will be returned to the people! Revolution!! Mwahahaha!!!
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