[MA] I can't figure how to use Tic-Tacs in cinematic games

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

I like the tic-tac idea from MA, but it seems to me that it isn't really useful except for a very narrow set of circumstances. I mean, sure, it's kinda cuta to base vertical jump distance on Broad Jump distance (even though divided by 4), but the -4 penalty on the first roll is too prohibitive. And I do realize that it can be reduced with a Technique, but that's still not enough for making tic-tacs in cinimatic games a worthwhile idea. The limit of Basic Move/2 for vertical movement is very restrictive, again, especially for those who also have Super Jump or Enhanced Move (Ground). I'm not sure if a Special Benefit for a Technique would be an acceptable way of avoiding it. Finally, there is no way to get rid of the cumulative -2 per tac, which completely eliminates the ability to scale shafts by jumping, like in Prince of Persia. All in all, Super Jump, Clinging and Lizard Climb seem to be better methods of scaling obstacles.

Opinions, hints, ideas?

Thanks in advance!

[Icelander]

My first idea is higher skill levels. If the PCs are supposed to be cinematic heroes in the vein of Prince of Persia, their Acrobatics and Jumping skill scores should not be much under 20 and perhaps much higher. From what I've seen of the games, the main protagonist has a skill somewhere in the vicinity of the high 30s.

If a PC wants to be able to tic-tac their ways up buildings, what's stopping them from buying a talent which adds to both Jumping and Acrobatics, having a high DX, taking at least DX+1 in Acrobatics and DX+2 in Jumping and then maxing the tic-tac Technique? This should yield a score of -18 or so in tic-taccing and that would mean that the PC should be able to scale most shafts that aren't more than 30' long, which should be plenty.

[vicky_molokh]

The limit of BasicMove/2 is still there, and I'm not sure is it safe to edit it.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Super Jump or Enhanced Move (Ground) [...] Super Jump, Clinging and Lizard Climb seem to be better methods of scaling obstacles.

In a campaign with any or all of that, you won't use the tic-tacs rules. Those are realistic rules for what is a fairly tricky parkour move. The move is useful when you can't get a run perpendicular to a surface in order to jump up at it and get on top, dive through an opening, etc. It lets you run parallel to the surface, gaining height as you go. Adding Basic Move/2 to your height is a big deal, and borderline cinematic for a realistic move . . . it lets a 6' man with Basic Move 5 reach something 6' + 5*3/2 = 13.5' off the ground and pull himself on top.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

In a campaign with any or all of that, you won't use the tic-tacs rules. Those are realistic rules for what is a fairly tricky parkour move. The move is useful when you can't get a run perpendicular to a surface in order to jump up at it and get on top, dive through an opening, etc. It lets you run parallel to the surface, gaining height as you go. Adding Basic Move/2 to your height is a big deal, and borderline cinematic for a realistic move . . . it lets a 6' man with Basic Move 5 reach something 6' + 5*3/2 = 13.5' off the ground and pull himself on top.

So it's okay to let them somehow circumvent both the maximum height and the cumulative -2? But how? A Hard Technique at -3 to encompass both? A perk? An UBG.

[Fnordianslip]

In a more cinematic game, just take the Perk that lets you learn a cinematic skill and grab Lizard Climb. Once you're outside the bounds of a realistic game, you're pretty much going to want to get rid of the tic-tac rules and just run with something more suited to the genre you're playing.

[Kromm]

For maximum height, just apply any Enhanced Move or Super Jump multiple to Basic Move. That wouldn't require any special perk . . . if you have EM 1 for ×2 ground Move and Super Jump 1 for ×2 jumping distance, go ahead and use (Basic Move/2 × 2 × 2) = Basic Move × 2. The usual rules for jumping aren't suspended here; things that "break the rules" for ordinary jumps also "break the rules" for special jumps like this, and in exactly the same way.

As for skill penalties . . . I wouldn't eliminate them. I would allow a Tic-Tac technique that defaults to Acrobatics or Jumping at -4 and that can be raised to skill+4.