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Old 01-29-2005, 05:23 AM   #31
Zombiehands
 
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Default Re: GURPS sex/class/race templates

I don't think any women weight lifter have qualified for a 20 ST. That is lifting 640lbs over your head! Very few men quailify for that.
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Old 01-29-2005, 05:35 AM   #32
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Default Re: GURPS sex/class/race templates

Given that the work record "Clean and Jerk" for men is 263.5 kg (about 585 pounds) and for women it is 182 kg (about 405 lbs) you math would imply that no human has ST 20. I was under the impression that olympic weightlifters regularly got to ST 20+, which would imply the qualifying weight you've set it too high.

Weightlifting world records

I calculate the male record as ST = 22, excluding any Lifting skill or extra effort, so that's a reasonable maximum if we assume you can "clean" 6 x BL.

The women's record implies ST = 18, same scenario.
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Old 01-29-2005, 10:49 PM   #33
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Default Re: GURPS sex/class/race templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
Given that the work record "Clean and Jerk" for men is 263.5 kg (about 585 pounds) and for women it is 182 kg (about 405 lbs) you math would imply that no human has ST 20. I was under the impression that olympic weightlifters regularly got to ST 20+, which would imply the qualifying weight you've set it too high.

Weightlifting world records

I calculate the male record as ST = 22, excluding any Lifting skill or extra effort, so that's a reasonable maximum if we assume you can "clean" 6 x BL.

The women's record implies ST = 18, same scenario.
By the records a 585 is a 19.12 ST and 405 is 15.9 ST It might not hit with a 20 ST but 19.12 is close enough. Why should a clean and jerk be less the a 2-handed lift? Personally after reading many of the post here I don't think 4e really intends for Stats as high as 20. Heck people here claim that einstein had a IQ of 13-14!!!! Normally I would not agree with people but if you look at animal Stats it kind of make sense. A 500lb lion has a 16 ST!!!!!!! In real life no man could come close to a lions power. Heck a 800lb grizzly has a 19ST!! No man could stand 2 secs with a grizzly in a wrestling match.
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Old 01-30-2005, 01:07 AM   #34
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Default Re: GURPS sex/class/race templates

Wouldn't Snatch be a little more suitable than Clean & Jerk? Isn't a Snatch basically a Clean & Jerk without a pause?

Unless I'm wildly wrong Snatch should be 8xBL right?

With ST 20; HT 12; Will 20 (what would the Limitation % be for "for Extra Effort Only?"); Lifting HT+8 [32]-20

BL would be 273 on an average (roll of 10) Lifting roll with -10 (+50%) Extra Effort.
One-Handed Lift would be 360 lbs,
Two-Handed Lift would be 1,440 lbs.

Snatch world record: 470 lbs.

For 202 points worth of powerlifting Johnny One-Shot the world record gets tripled (again, if Snatch is 8xBL).

Do you think a Squat would be safely modelled by 10xBL?
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Old 01-30-2005, 04:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChupaThingy
For 202 points worth of powerlifting Johnny One-Shot the world record gets tripled (again, if Snatch is 8xBL).
Well doesn't that simply prove that Snatch isn't 8 x BL?
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Old 01-30-2005, 05:35 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChupaThingy
Do you think a Squat would be safely modelled by 10xBL?

When I was a member at Bally's fitness (ick, spit, ptooey) they had a form that calculated how much weight a person should be able to lift given a certain poundage of lean body mass.

I remember that I calculated that for an average 150lb guy, with average body fat of something like 10%, he should be able to bench press something like 120 lbs, and squat 180. That is, squat was about 1.5x bench.

I've since more or less concluded, as a rule-of-thumb, that you can probably max about 6x your basic lift, and do sets at 3/4 that value. Same for squat, but the numbers were Max of 9x basic lift, sets at 3/4 that value.
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Old 01-30-2005, 06:43 PM   #37
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Default Re: GURPS sex/class/race templates

And again we focus on strength, and how boyz r t3h strongerssst.

And we ignore agility, and health, and endurance, and pain tolerance, and friends, and longevity, and.... and all the other stuff.

It must be a rule or something. Just as geek boys will all claim to have genius-level IQ, they'll all claim that strength is super-dooper important, and nothing else is worth discussing.
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
And again we focus on strength, and how boyz r t3h strongerssst.

And we ignore agility, and health, and endurance, and pain tolerance, and friends, and longevity, and.... and all the other stuff.

It must be a rule or something. Just as geek boys will all claim to have genius-level IQ, they'll all claim that strength is super-dooper important, and nothing else is worth discussing.
Strength is the one obvious and quantifiable difference between genders, on the average. It's about as objective as one can get in this discussion. If we can't settle on that, the rest is beyond hope (it may be beyond hope anyway).

As for the rest, I've not seen that men or women have superior agility, health, endurance, pain tolerance, or friends. Who lives longer is a matter of statistical fact; that should be as easily settled as strength should be, with proper data.
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:02 PM   #39
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Default Re: GURPS sex/class/race templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
It must be a rule or something. Just as geek boys will all claim to have genius-level IQ, they'll all claim that strength is super-dooper important, and nothing else is worth discussing.
Heh. I once played a sexist fantasy campaign where the GM was like, "Women can't have strength more than 11!" So I took a woman with a strength of nine, and then proceeded to kill all the male characters. Just to spite the GM.

I didn't actually make it. But I killed quite a few before they all ganged up on me. These were all boys with an S of 13-14. But what they didn't realise is that that damage is useless if you can't hit a person. And a high skill with a rapier means that you can aim for the eyes...
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: GURPS sex/class/race templates

The gay male template:

Attributes:
-1 ST

Advantages:
Fashion sense
Less sleep/2 (because other things are done in bed.)
Empathy (sensitive)
Handsome
Reputation +2 OR a disadvantage at -2 (every other gay male knows how good (or, with the disadvantage, how bad) you are in bed)

Disadvantages:
Intolerace (Religious people, republicans)
Quirk: says, "You go, girl!" constantly.
Compulsive partier
Addiction: poppers
Quirk: Limp wrist.
Lecherous
Social stigma -2 (homophobes)

Skills:
Carousing
Sex Appeal

Last edited by Guntar; 01-30-2005 at 07:59 PM.
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