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Old 11-07-2022, 03:29 PM   #231
Prince Charon
 
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

OK, Tropical Storm Nicole is heading toward Florida, so I'm going to total up the votes now, and post a new question when I have one written (we might not be in any danger of losing power today, and not much danger tomorrow I hope, but there's enough uncertainty that I decided I should do something).

2 has three votes, and 4 has either three or four, but some of those are for the DF elves to be the 'common' elves and another variety being the major ones. 5 has two votes, and 3 and 8 have one each. So, the Mythical Elves exist as peer competitors of the Goa'Uld, while there are a range of far less powerful DF-style elves that the PCs are far more likely to meet. 'Common' elves that live long enough might grow in power to become Mythic elves, so there are probably some elves with point totals in the wide gap between them (the higher-level interpretations of Standard GURPS Elves, perhaps). Unfortunately, the Cosmic Horror Elves also exist, and there is a real risk of the PCs meeting them without knowing what they're in for. Grey Ones may exist, but would be quite rare.


Thoughts?
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Old 11-07-2022, 05:30 PM   #232
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OK, I really didn't expect to have this ready this soon, but I got inspired:

Staff-weapon Question I

The Jaffa and other warriors serving the Goa'Uld have a variety of staff-like ranged weapons, of which the form below is intended to be a fairly average example. I'm treating it as Equipment rather than a Gadget, due to how common it is, and because it's a product of ancient Goa'Uld magical engineering, not enchantment (though a PC or important NPC with a custom staff might still have it as a Gadget).

Does this look good, and if it needs changing, what do you suggest?

Staff of Fireballs (as a ranged weapon)
TL: ^; Damage: 2d burn dkb; Acc: 1; 1/2D: 75; Max: 450; Weight: 12; RoF: 1; Shots: (see notes); ST: 9†; Bulk: -6; Rcl: 1; Cost (see notes); LC: 1

Staff of Fireballs (in melee)
TL: ^; Damage: sw+3 cr/thr+3 cr; Reach: 1, 2; Parry: +2; ST: 12†

Notes

"This is a weapon of terror. It's made to intimidate the enemy."
Jack O'Neill, Stargate SG1


This is a heavy staff-like weapon weighted at both ends, with one end being the power storage, and the other being the emitter head. The skills used are Polearm, Spear, or Staff for melee (most Jaffa are trained in the Spear skill for this purpose, and may have spears as secondary weapons, especially among the retinues of less wealthy Goa'Uld), and Beam Weapons (Staff)/TL^ at range. The design gives +1 to Intimidation and related rolls. At the point of impact, the fireballs impart kinetic force sufficient to do knockback equivalent to a crushing attack of twice the damage.

The amount of magical energy that a staff can store on a full charge, and thus the number of shots, varies by the intended power of the weapon, and somewhat by the built quality. A low-end Staff of Fireballs that does 1d burning damage (still with double knockback) will tend to have at least 90 shots, and no more than 125, with an average of about 108. One that does 2d burn dkb (as above) or 1d burn ex dkb will tend to have half as many shots, and a staff that does 3d burn dkb or 2d burn ex dkb will generally have a third as many. Some staff weapons have multiple settings, and thus a variable number of shots. In addition, the operator can make a Will or Mental Strength roll to power the staff from the user's own FP, costing 1FP per die of damage or additional modifier (explosive being a common option for a Staff of Fireballs).

Recharging the staff requires either that same Will roll and spending of FP, or bringing it to a ley line or nexus. The nexus that the SGC uses can recharge an unknown number of staff weapons and other devices at the equivalent of 1 FP per 2d minutes, though this level of power is rare; also, note that charging stops when the Stargate is open, which makes the actual charge times a fair bit longer.

An individual Staff of Fireballs is not generally available for sale, and when it is, the price is highly variable (though anyone selling it for less than the equivalent of $1,000 is either an idiot, or desperate to get rid of it immediately). Independent Goa'Uld Lords (and a few of the more powerful Underlords) tend to have facilities to build important weapons and equipment for their own use or the use of their vassals and servants, rather than trusting each other too much (though they do trade in raw materials, and also in art, slaves, and other things that are not considered vital). The average cost for a typical Goa'Uld's internal accounting is equivalent to about $800.

Staff weapons doing a variety of other damage types are possible and might be encountered, including but not limited to sharpened icicles, jets of sand or steam, poisonous vortex rings, and lightning bolts.

Some varieties of staff weapon (not limited to lightning staves) have a 'taser-like' option, imparting a stunning shock to those hit by the head of the weapon. This will often be HT-4 aff (stun, surge, 1d-4 burn), linked to the cr damage; in some cases, the stunning effect is also carried by the ranged attack, and bypasses most armor. Many other options exist, armor-piercing attacks being quite common (the 'poisonous vortex rings' type may instead corrode armour).

*******

Answer: Accepted after editing.
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Old 11-07-2022, 05:32 PM   #233
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4 has either one or two depending on how I should interpret Varyon's post
Treat it as a vote for 4 (that is, one vote each for 2, 3, and 4).
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Old 11-07-2022, 06:08 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
Staff of Fireballs (as a ranged weapon)
TL: ^; Damage: 2d burn; Acc: 0; 1/2D: 25; Max: 50; Weight: 12; RoF: 1; Shots: (see notes); ST: 12; Bulk: -8; Rcl: 0; Cost (see notes); LC: 1
I would be inclined to give it Acc 1 - we do see Jaffa (and others) sighting along the staff itself, and I believe spells retain their Acc when cast through staves. The Range seems a bit low - while it does match the Range of the Fireball spell, it may render the Jaffa too little of a threat to the Tau'ri outside of close-quarters (while Acc 1 isn't going to have much luck hitting characters, at the very least you could have them using the staves to keep their enemy's heads down). MinST 12 (which I assume is meant to be 12†, these generally being two-handed weapons) is probably too high - the musket in LT has the same MinST, and this is only a bit over half the weight and has no appreciable recoil. I'd probably go with MinST 9† - the StG44 and AK-47 are around the same weight (13.2 lb and 11.3 lb, respectively) and have MinST 9†.

EDIT: I'd be more inclined to go with Bulk -5 rather than Bulk -8; they are roughly comparable in size and shape to a bastard sword, and those are Holdout -5 (Holdout being equivalent to Bulk - note thrown melee weapons use their Holdout penalty as their Bulk).

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
Staff of Fireballs (in melee)
TL: ^; Damage: sw+3 cr/thr+3 cr; Reach: 1, 2; Parry: 0
As a staff, it should probably have Parry +2, unless we're assuming these weapons are typically poorly-balanced (if we are, a more-balanced variant that gives that +2 to Parry should be available, used by more elite Jaffa such as the First Primes). Damage is consistent with the weight, using the scaling guidelines from LTC2 (x3 to weight - going from a 4 lb quarterstaff to a 12 lb weapon - would be around x1.7 to the damage adds, going from +2 to around +3.5, which rounds down to 3... although treating it as +1d could be interesting). MinST 12† does work here, however.


Those aside, I do rather like your take on the staff weapon.
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Old 11-07-2022, 06:51 PM   #235
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Some varieties of staff weapon have a 'taser-like' setting, imparting a stunning shock to those hit by the head of the weapon. Treat this as HT-4 aff (stun, surge, 1d-4 burn), linked to the cr damage.
Why would something that shoots fireballs have anything resembling a taser? Smacking people around with light burns? Sure. Zapping and causing them collapse? Not so much.
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Old 11-07-2022, 08:27 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Prince Charon;2458084
[size=3
Staff-weapon Question I[/size]

Does this look good, and if it needs changing, what do you suggest?

.
2D Burn would be adequate though perhaps not good. It just barely averages a Major Wound on an unarmored target. 1D staffs would be like .25 ACP pistols.

Even the base TL8 vest without Trauma plates drops it below Major Wound and even 1990s Trauma Plates stop it completely. A TL4 Breastplate could stop it and Jaffa-like chain armor becomes more than a fashion statement.

You might want to put a significant armor divisor on it.
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Old 11-08-2022, 06:22 AM   #237
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Why would something that shoots fireballs have anything resembling a taser? Smacking people around with light burns? Sure. Zapping and causing them collapse? Not so much.
The movie, IIRC, and maybe also some scenes in the show. Part of the problem is that I put that paragraph in the wrong place, as it should be either just before or just after the one about other staff types that do different kinds of damage. Will try to reply to other posts when more awake.
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Old 11-08-2022, 06:52 AM   #238
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2D Burn would be adequate though perhaps not good. It just barely averages a Major Wound on an unarmored target. 1D staffs would be like .25 ACP pistols.

Even the base TL8 vest without Trauma plates drops it below Major Wound and even 1990s Trauma Plates stop it completely. A TL4 Breastplate could stop it and Jaffa-like chain armor becomes more than a fashion statement.

You might want to put a significant armor divisor on it.
Hmmm... on the one hand, these are weapons of terror rather than war, meant to be used against civilians. On the other hand, they are frequently used by Jaffa on opposite sides of a Goa'Uld squabble (and Jaffa are certainly depicted wearing armor - IIRC that's part of why SG1 opted for the P90), and at only 2d burn civilians may be able to put together improvised armor that grants a degree of protection. And, of course, the Tau'ri are going to be rocking some armor if it renders them nearly immune to the weapons of their foes.

I can think of two solutions, without boosting the damage of the weapons. The first, as you suggest, would be an armor divisor - probably (5) would do it. The second would be to have that "taser" function be carried by the projectile, as a follow-up. Said function may be appropriate to use the behavior of DF electricity, treating metal DR as DR 1. That would mean armored targets will typically be stunned rather than slain. I'm not sure what mid-90's trauma plates were generally made of, but I think metal was common, so while they'd readily stop the fireball, the stunning function would still apply.
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Old 11-08-2022, 09:10 AM   #239
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. I'm not sure what mid-90's trauma plates were generally made of, but I think metal was common,y.
For mid-90s armor w/plates look at the TL8 fragmentation Ves ('ISAPO"t on p.66 and 67 of HT. It's heavier and overall less protective but still more modern than not.
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Old 11-08-2022, 09:23 AM   #240
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OK, laid down for a while and then had coffee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I would be inclined to give it Acc 1 - we do see Jaffa (and others) sighting along the staff itself, and I believe spells retain their Acc when cast through staves. The Range seems a bit low - while it does match the Range of the Fireball spell, it may render the Jaffa too little of a threat to the Tau'ri outside of close-quarters (while Acc 1 isn't going to have much luck hitting characters, at the very least you could have them using the staves to keep their enemy's heads down).
I was probably trying to match the accuracy the Jaffa tend to have on the show, and the ranges given for the spell seemed appropriate for the combat ranges we see in the show, but I now I think I was being too faithful to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
MinST 12 (which I assume is meant to be 12†, these generally being two-handed weapons) is probably too high - the musket in LT has the same MinST, and this is only a bit over half the weight and has no appreciable recoil. I'd probably go with MinST 9† - the StG44 and AK-47 are around the same weight (13.2 lb and 11.3 lb, respectively) and have MinST 9†.
Yeah, I should have kept separate Min STs for the ranged and melee uses.

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
EDIT: I'd be more inclined to go with Bulk -5 rather than Bulk -8; they are roughly comparable in size and shape to a bastard sword, and those are Holdout -5 (Holdout being equivalent to Bulk - note thrown melee weapons use their Holdout penalty as their Bulk).
I think I might have overestimated the length a bit *goes to check the wiki*. It's two metres long, so maybe -6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
As a staff, it should probably have Parry +2, unless we're assuming these weapons are typically poorly-balanced (if we are, a more-balanced variant that gives that +2 to Parry should be available, used by more elite Jaffa such as the First Primes). Damage is consistent with the weight, using the scaling guidelines from LTC2 (x3 to weight - going from a 4 lb quarterstaff to a 12 lb weapon - would be around x1.7 to the damage adds, going from +2 to around +3.5, which rounds down to 3... although treating it as +1d could be interesting). MinST 12† does work here, however.
I recall putting it at +2, then thinking that people would think that was too good, and resetting it to 0. I guess I should have left it where it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Those aside, I do rather like your take on the staff weapon.
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
2D Burn would be adequate though perhaps not good. It just barely averages a Major Wound on an unarmored target. 1D staffs would be like .25 ACP pistols.

Even the base TL8 vest without Trauma plates drops it below Major Wound and even 1990s Trauma Plates stop it completely. A TL4 Breastplate could stop it and Jaffa-like chain armor becomes more than a fashion statement.

You might want to put a significant armor divisor on it.
Possibly. I also think that I should have given it double knockback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Hmmm... on the one hand, these are weapons of terror rather than war, meant to be used against civilians. On the other hand, they are frequently used by Jaffa on opposite sides of a Goa'Uld squabble (and Jaffa are certainly depicted wearing armor - IIRC that's part of why SG1 opted for the P90), and at only 2d burn civilians may be able to put together improvised armor that grants a degree of protection. And, of course, the Tau'ri are going to be rocking some armor if it renders them nearly immune to the weapons of their foes.

I can think of two solutions, without boosting the damage of the weapons. The first, as you suggest, would be an armor divisor - probably (5) would do it. The second would be to have that "taser" function be carried by the projectile, as a follow-up. Said function may be appropriate to use the behavior of DF electricity, treating metal DR as DR 1. That would mean armored targets will typically be stunned rather than slain. I'm not sure what mid-90's trauma plates were generally made of, but I think metal was common, so while they'd readily stop the fireball, the stunning function would still apply.
Either works, it just needs some thinking. Of course, since these are not exactly standarised weapons, it could be that some have an armour divisor, some have a stunning effect, and some have both, or neither.

Also, as a weapon of terror, I should point out that burn injuries are very painful and don't always heal right, so some Goa'Uld might want to have survivors around as object lessons.
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