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Old 09-10-2018, 11:06 AM   #21
tbone
 
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Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

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Originally Posted by Railstar View Post
How would you figure it out?

Off the top of my head I'm thinking...

DB 1 = shield arm (shield hand assumed to be included).
DB 2 = shield arm + torso.
DB 3 = shield arm + leg on that side.

Then combine with the Focused Defence rules to present the shield side.
FWIW, in the article I reference a couple of times, I arrived at (i.e., flat-out made up) the following:
DB 1: Half cover for shield arm/hand (full cover for shield hand if buckler) and torso/vitals.
DB 2: Full cover for shield arm/hand; half cover for torso/vitals/groin.
DB 3: Full cover for shield arm/hand and torso/vitals/groin; half cover for legs (but not feet).
(Note: Where I use "half cover", I believe the appropriate BS term would be "partial cover".)

One could certainly redo (and probably improve on) my suggested combinations of location and coverage.

In any case, the effect would be (per B548 as quoted by DC) full protection for a "full cover" location, and a -2 TH (or 50/50 chance of shield strike) for a "half cover" location, versus any attack (intentional or random).

One way of going about it –
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:13 AM   #22
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
Indeed, and I tackle that very consideration in detail in my old bit.

Rather than weigh down the thread with all my junk, I'll again refer (a presumably very small number of) interested parties to the article. Down near the bottom, in item #3 of Designer's Notes, are notes on how this whole "shields as cover" business would/could/should(?) mesh with Deceptive Attack.
Good article. One thing I'd note from personal experience: "1) The shield creates the TH penalty, and keeps its DB bonus. We've doubled the defensive power of a shield."

This might wind up being *exactly right,* as in my experience with medium round shields, viking style, is that held properly, with proper stance, the amount of protection and line-denial provided is simply immense. You MUST deal, actively, with the shield, if you want to smite someone.
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:20 PM   #23
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Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

First of all, thanks you guys for your comments here. In a few words, everything you have commented is useful to me.

So, I just have a few doubts to clear.

1. In B390, it says shields can only block attacks from the shield's side. It does not say anything about being double jointed (as the next paragraph says for an one-handed melee weapon). So, will double jointed actually work when trying to block attacks from the non-shield side?

2. Imagine I have a cloak and I am being attacked from the non-shield side or from behind. Let's say I decided to dodge and make the cloak provide me a passive defense bonus (penalty to hit). How would you resolve it?

3. What I happens if I quick sheathe (this is from power-ups) my weapon while I am being attacked and then I grab the cloak as a matador (or batman) to make my dodge or a block? Will this effectively yield me the DB?

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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
(...) I am not entirely sure what errata you are referring to. (...)
To clarify what I actually wanted to point as "errata": I meant the DB from cloaks, which you cannot receive unless you employ them as "fencing shields". When I started playing, me and my party took the DB from the cloak even if we did not employ it as a shield; we even ended stacking the DB from the shield and the cloak! And well, maybe it is not "errata" but a fact you need to dig further than the basic books unless you really know how cloaks can work in combat (hence the quotes in "errata").

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Old 09-11-2018, 06:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

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2. Imagine I have a cloak and I am being attacked from the non-shield side or from behind. Let's say I decided to dodge and make the cloak provide me a passive defense bonus (penalty to hit). How would you resolve it?
Do you mean "have a cloak wrapped around your arm (Ready)"? If you do, it counts as a shield, if you have it but it is not Ready it provides no protection except any inherent DR.

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3. What I happens if I quick sheathe (this is from power-ups) my weapon while I am being attacked and then I grab the cloak as a matador (or batman) to make my dodge or a block? Will this effectively yield me the DB?
It takes one or more Ready manoevres to wrap a cloak, poncho, denim jacket, etc. around your arm to use it as a shield, see page B383. Until it is Ready, it provides no DB and cannot Block.

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Originally Posted by Hide View Post
To clarify what I actually wanted to point as "errata": I meant the DB from cloaks, which you cannot receive unless you employ them as "fencing shields". When I started playing, me and my party took the DB from the cloak even if we did not employ it as a shield; we even ended stacking the DB from the shield and the cloak! And well, maybe it is not "errata" but a fact you need to dig further than the basic books unless you really know how cloaks can work in combat (hence the quotes in "errata").

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Page 374 "If you have a ready shield, add its Defense Bonus (DB) to any Dodge, Parry, or Block roll against an attack that came from in front of you or from your shield side. Defense Bonus is 1 for a small shield, light cloak, and most improvised shields; 2 for a medium shield or heavy cloak; and 3 for a large shield or force shield. The Shield spell (p. 252) gives a DB of 1-4." Page 383 has rules for reading a cloak to use it as a shield.

I think that all it needs is "ready shield -> ready shield or cloak."
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:41 AM   #25
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Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

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1. So, will double jointed actually work when trying to block attacks from the non-shield side?
I don't think that's the intent of RAW. I wouldn't be upset if a GM wanted to allow it. There would be biomechanics involved other than just whether or not you can reach, and the weapon itself gives you more reach for a Parry than a shield does for a Block. But it's a 15-point Advantage, and the sorts of characters that want to be Double-Jointed generally aren't the sort that are toting around shields anyway.

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2. Imagine I have a cloak and I am being attacked from the non-shield side or from behind. Let's say I decided to dodge and make the cloak provide me a passive defense bonus (penalty to hit). How would you resolve it?
I'd say you don't get the DB. A cloak used as a shield is wrapped around your arm, perhaps with a dangling bit for distractions or to whip at your opponent, as in this 1570 image. You don't get the DB just because you're wearing a cloak normally. It's a thick wad of cloth armor you can use to block a blow much as with a wooden shield. You'll have to ready the cloak as a defense in your off hand first.

Quote:
I grab the cloak as a matador (or batman) to make my dodge or a block? Will this effectively yield me the DB?
Same answer if you're trying to be realistic. If I wanted the game to be cinematic enough to encourage that sort of stunt for Batman, I might allow it. But I'd go with calling it a "Dirty Trick" (B405) that gives a bonus to Dodge.

(For Batman specifically, it's also quite likely that cloak tricks are just cool fluff that justify buying Enhanced Dodge.)
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:13 AM   #26
Kromm
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Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

It seems to be a FAQ, because fewer gamers than we imagined have read about Renaissance fencing . . .

A cloak has no effect on active defenses until it is taken off your back and readied in one hand, occupying that hand in a fashion that protects the arm and allows the free-hanging portion to snare weapons and distract foes. This takes one Ready maneuver for a light cloak, two Ready maneuvers for a heavy one. At that point, the cloak provides DB 1 (if light) or DB 2 (if heavy) against attacks from the front or the cloak side, and permits a Block defense equal to (Cloak/2)+3.

A cloak on your back does nothing useful beyond keeping you warm and making you look cool. Its DR protects it, not you, because it's just too thin. There are rules for cloaks that do offer DR in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Swashbucklers. These are heavier and more expensive, give a skill penalty, and are kind of ugly. They do last longer, though.

A cloak never provides any active defense benefits against attacks from the opposite side or the rear, no matter what advantages you have.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:29 PM   #27
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Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

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To clarify what I actually wanted to point as "errata": [...]
- Hide
Fair enough I was also confused about cloaks the first time I read the rules. And now Kromm has weighed in, so that's the rules ;)


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[...]
Totally Off Topic: I like your new sunny profile picture :D
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:25 PM   #28
Kromm
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Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

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Totally Off Topic: I like your new sunny profile picture :D
I was on vacation (not sure if the FB album is visible to all or not), and the sun made me take off my cloak. Something to think about in games where people run around with cloaks all the time to get cheap, lightweight DB. I'd treat wearing a cloak on a hot day like wearing an overcoat when hiking or fighting a battle; see p. B426.
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