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Old 09-05-2018, 11:44 AM   #1
Erijhon
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default About combat, fighting skills and damage

Hi mates!

My name is Eri and I master role games with my friends very often.

I'm from Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain), and my first contact with "In Nomine" world was with the original french game "In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas" by Croc, like 15 years ago. Actually, it was the first Role Game I ever played.

Although, I never mastered it. I was enjoying the role of player most on these days.

Later, when I started mastering, I wanted to master INSMV but I found it was already out of stock in my country, plus the editorial stopped developing the game. It was very hard to find all expansions and stuff.

Fortunately, I found this rework by Steve Jackson GAMES (I'm a fan of Munchkin), "In Nomine", and I came to love the game even more.
I won't stop thanking my fiancee to have bought all books as birthday present.

I think this version is way clearer and more complete.
Although, reading everything, forums, FAQs and all the material I have found, I came to be a bit confused about combat, fighting skills and damage dealing.

I know I can "house" my own rules and modify the ruleset in the book, but I like to stay the closest to the game originals to satisfy my players, as they are quite literal and like to read the manuals.

I hope I'm not asking something silly, obvious or present in a corner of this forum, but I have already tried to find a complete answer everywhere and I'm starting to feel quite desperate.

To support my questions, let's introduce my divine assistant:
Georgina, Cherub of Newbies
Woman Vessel/5
CorF: 3 (4STR - 8AGI) (32 Body Hits)
EthF: 4 (7INT - 9PRE) (28 Mind Hits)
CelF: 5 (10WIL - 10PER) (50 Sould Hits)

Skills: Dodge/6, Fighting/6, Ranged W./6, Small W./6, Heavy W./6
Songs: Healing/6/6/6, Might/6/6/6
Role: Teacher/6 Status/3 Charisma/2


As you can tell by her build, she really loves to help and protect every unexperienced and lost soul she finds in danger. That's why she is finding herself in combat quite often.

May you let me know if the following rolls are correct?


CORPOREAL COMBAT (Disregarding surprise or any other situational modificator):

1 - Georgina has no weapon in her hands at the moment. She is fighting using her Taekwondo Style, based on kicks (unarmed -2 power -1accuracy).

Unarmed Attack Roll:
STR + CorF + Fighting + Accuracy = 4 + 3 + 6 - 1 = 12

Georgina gets an automatic success and rolls, 1, 2 and 6, being 6 the Check Digit.

Damage output: CD + Power + Bonus = 6 - 2 + 0 = 4

Considering her opponent didn't defend, dodge, or wear any protection, would she inflict 4 points of damage?


2 - Considering other similar kind of attacks with no defense in return, based on small or heavy weapons, would there be any other modificatior or bonus rather than the level of the weapon skill or the bonuses of the worn weapon?
I read somewhere that there's a bonus based on STR:
STR 6 to 8: +1
STR 8 to 10: +2
STR 10 to 12: +3

May it be?


3 - Georgina has a shotgun in her hands. She is fighting from a range. (Shotgun +6power -1accuracy).

Ranged Attack Roll:
PRE + ???F + Ranged W. + Accuracy = 9 + ??? + 6 - 1 = 14+???

Should we add any kind of forces for corporeal ranged attack? Should we still count corporeal forces? Maybe ethereal? None?

Either way, the minimum Georgina gets is an automatic success +2 bonus to her CD as damage, and rolls, 4, 4 and 4, being (obviously) 4 the Check Digit.

Damage output: CD + Power + Bonus = 4 + 6 + 2 = 12

Considering her opponent didn't defend, dodge, or wear any protection, would she inflict 12 points of damage?


4 - Is there any way for a character to attack several times in a round? (Like exceeding any agility requirement). Multiple weapons (2 pistols) maybe? Would this apply to combat in other realms applying PRE or PER for etheral or celestial combats? Is there a book reference? I might have disregarded it.


ETHERAL AND CELESTIAL COMBAT (Disregarding surprise or any other situational modificator):

5 - Would previous rolls be correct changing the characteristics and forces of the current realm?

Do mental or soul unarmed attacks apply any accuracy/power?

Ethereal Unarmed Attack Roll:
INT + EthF + Fighting + Accuracy = 7 + 4 + 6 + ??? = 17+???
Celestial Unarmed Attack Roll:
WIL + CelF + Fighting + Accuracy = 10 + 5 + 6 + ??? = 21+???


6 - Considering we had ethereal or celestial weapons, would there be any other damage bonuses via INT or WIL? (The same way as my question for corporeal combat)


7 - Considering we had etheral or celestial ranged weapons, would they still attack via PRE? Should EthF or CelF be applied this time?


My players usually complain that it's very hard to fight rivals of their same forces, especially tanky ones.
With an average AGI/6, PRE/6, PER/6 and Dodge/3, defensive rolls are kind of easy and cheap to be rolled, with a Target Number of 9.
Even if we don't add any armor defense bonus, final damage output ends up being very low. Even for Georgina, she is not an starting 9 Forces angel and she doesn't get much of all her fighting skills or weapon combat skills without a nice power weapon, like the shotgun.

I hope I don't overwhelm you, guys, and sorry if my english doesn't make much sense somewhere. I tried my best.
Let me know if you need clarification.

I really, really, deeply thank and appreciate your help in advance!!

Best regards,

Eri

Last edited by Erijhon; 09-07-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:58 AM   #2
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: About combat, fighting skills and damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erijhon View Post
1 - Georgina has no weapon in her hands at the moment. She is fighting using her Taekwondo Style, based on kicks (unarmed -2 power -1 accuracy).

Unarmed Attack Roll:
STR + CorF + Fighting + Accuracy = 4 + 3 + 6 - 1 = 12
This is correct for the rules-as-written. It is a common house rule to remove Corporeal Forces from this calculation, because it's too easy to get to an automatic success.
Quote:
Georgina gets an automatic success and rolls:
1-2 CD: 6
I don't understand what you mean by "1-2" here. Do you mean 1d-2?
Quote:
Damage output: CD + Power + Bonus = 6 - 2 + 0 = 4

Considering her opponent didn't defend, dodge, or wear any protection, would she inflict 4 points of damage?
Yes.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:19 AM   #3
Erijhon
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default Re: About combat, fighting skills and damage

Hey, johndallman!

Thanks a lot for your replies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I don't understand what you mean by "1-2" here. Do you mean 1d-2?
By 1-2 CD:6 I mean:
Georgina rolls D666. Roll results are 1, 2 and 6, being 6 the Check Digit.
Sorry for the confusion! I'm not very used to the slang.
I will edit my first post so I don't lead to confusion other readers!


Do you have any clues for multiple attacks? Any rules to follow? The book doesn't mention at all.

The only references I find is with the song Numinous Corpus. As said in the book:
Tail Corpus: Gives you an extra hit with your tail.
Feet: You can hit with both foot and hands in the same round, letting me understand you roll for punching and separately for kicking.

Let's assume Georgina had these two Corpus, Tail and Feet, and she activates both. Would she be able to attack 3 times in a round?


Then, assuming this kind of modifications would be "the way of fighting", what with Small W., Heavy W., Ranged W. and Throwing skills? Isn't there any rule known to deal with multiple hits per round?

Again, thank you very much for your help!
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:29 PM   #4
Archangel Beth
In Nomine Line Editor
 
Archangel Beth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Frozen Wastelands of NH
Default Re: About combat, fighting skills and damage

I would give Georgina 3 attacks per round, sure. I might assess a penalty if she had only recently learned one of those Songs.

(IIRC, an In Nomine round is like 5 seconds -- or 5 GURPS rounds -- so Punch, Kick, and Tail-smack is pretty reasonable. GURPS would technically allow five attacks in that time, but IN is presumed to also incorporate minor things that take explicit statements in GURPS, like circling, or simply describing "a flurry of blows" (one punching roll) in a round with a single roll for damage.

E.g., Georgina and Asial are fighting, and she's got both her Numinous Corpus Songs active. She rolls 3 times, and Asial, dodge-monster, manages to avoid getting hit by two of the attacks; the GM can describe, "You start with a haymaker to Asial's jaw, but the wretch ducks, so you try to kick him in the face, and he rolls aside -- but that means he rolls right into your tail-strike! Roll damage for your Tail attack.")

So 3 rolls to attack -- one for each method -- and her target(s) get a chance to Dodge each one, with whatever penalties the GM wishes to apply for Dodging multiple attacks. (If any -- if she's attacking one target, that target might be considered to be Dodging away from all her attacks pretty equally, so no Dodge.)

Obviously, if the GM finds that someone has turned into a CombatWombat with Numinous Corpus Songs, the GM gets to A: modify the rules to keep the wombat from turning combats into "Combat Wombat steamrollers everything OR the rest of the party dies while CW has a slightly challenging fight," and/or B: introduce the CW to K.K.

http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/art.../Lilim.KK.html

(K.K. is a munchkin idea whose sole purpose is for the GM to torment the "hit first" sort. Even a demonic combat wombat might get K.K.'s attention for some reason -- if the GM thinks that it might cause the character (or player) to slow down on the "just kill everything" approach.)

Sorry if I'm a little disorganized; short on sleep and a bit of a headache.
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Shamelessly adding Superiors: Lilith and her fiction page to her .sig (the latter is not precisely gaming related)
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:27 AM   #5
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: About combat, fighting skills and damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel Beth View Post
K.K. is a munchkin idea whose sole purpose is for the GM to torment the "hit first" sort.
Now that's Dark Humor!
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