Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-26-2018, 03:10 PM   #11
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Kings are normally priests. (The taking of Holy Orders which makes one a priest is part of the Coronation ceremony.)
Err, not in the European tradition. In ancient Egypt, sure. European monarchs may be sanctified during their coronation, but they are not made priests. If they were, how could queens regnant happen in countries where only men can be priests?

For example, Elizabeth I of England, and Anne and Victoria of the United Kingdom were all monarchs when only men could be ordained in the Church of England.
johndallman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 06:07 AM   #12
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
They're diplomatic envoys of a foreign power; they may be able to get an audience with the king and then cut a deal. It's probably not as good a deal as they could get from the heir-presumptive if the heir was king, but it's something they could do.
That sounds like a *very* shaky assumption to me. If they actually help him become king, what does he still need them for that he'd reward them?


Quote:
Remember, the king in this instance is equivalent to Henry IV: a usurper who cut his nephew out of the line of succession and then convinced the aristocrats to support his rule.
If that worked, it should work again if you can convince the aristocrats to change their minds. You could mind control some of the key aristocrats. Or bribe them (though it would probably be cheaper to bribe the king for whatever it is you want). Or engineer a situation in which the king does something the aristocrats hate enough to desert him (maybe you can falsely convince the king his key supporters have betrayed him and are already plotting against him and get him to start a reign of terror)
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 06:17 AM   #13
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
* Assassination: Kill the current king and his immediate descendants. Might cause trouble with the new king; might fail and cause a civil war.
Are his immediate descendants also unwilling to grant whatever it is you want from this kingdom? Supporting one particular heir from the old regime might not be the only option here. If it's just this particular king that's the obstacle and not the natural position of the state, it doesn't actually matter who you replace him with. And if it is the natural position of the state, then just about anyone you replace him with would probably come around to opposing whatever you wanted anyway.

Also, if it is just him, you don't necessarily have to *kill* him to take him out of the decision loop. If mind controlling him is actually an option, you might be able to drive him mad or inflict a disabling stroke instead.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 12:24 AM   #14
DocRailgun
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

The OP wrote that the characters are at least appearing as emmisaries of a foreign government - couldn't they just ask the current king to help out? Why is he so unwilling to do so? If he's afraid that using half his army to fight someone else would weaken his kingdom overmuch, wouldn't that still be the case for the new king?

Does the kingdom the PCs are working for know they're doing this? If so, aren't they worried that the PCs will turn around and use their new friendly army to attack the place they're supposedly working for? Even if not, might they not be concerned that a group of agents who can go cause regime change in a foreign land might someday decide to do so at home if the price was right?
DocRailgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 12:40 PM   #15
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

They could ask the current king to help out, and that's explicitly been one of the possible approaches since the beginning. The problem is that the current king is not sympathetic to the PCs' interests, and the former heir presumptive is sympathetic to them. So while the heir presumptive might say "sure, borrow half my army and I'll raise local taxes to support the expeditionary force", the current king is going to say "you can borrow a quarter of my army and you have to pay them at mercenary rates" if he agrees at all.

The PCs are the rulers of their home country, so they're not particularly worried about overthrowing themselves.
__________________
Read my GURPS blog: http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com
mlangsdorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 05:24 AM   #16
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
They could ask the current king to help out, and that's explicitly been one of the possible approaches since the beginning. The problem is that the current king is not sympathetic to the PCs' interests, and the former heir presumptive is sympathetic to them. So while the heir presumptive might say "sure, borrow half my army and I'll raise local taxes to support the expeditionary force", the current king is going to say "you can borrow a quarter of my army and you have to pay them at mercenary rates" if he agrees at all.
If the favor they actually want is to borrow half the army, then changing royal lineages is probably not an option. Even if you could engineer it, the new king will need his army for a while to establish his own authority locally, he can't *afford* to loan it to somebody else until he's sure nobody is going to revolt against the new regime.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 02:55 PM   #17
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

I'm not trying to evaluate the feasibility of the options. That's for the players.

I'm just trying to be a prepared GM, by having at least an outline of a plan for when they say they're going to kill the king or mind control him or whatever.
__________________
Read my GURPS blog: http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com
mlangsdorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 05:44 PM   #18
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
I'm not trying to evaluate the feasibility of the options. That's for the players.

I'm just trying to be a prepared GM, by having at least an outline of a plan for when they say they're going to kill the king or mind control him or whatever.
A laudable goal, but don't put too much effort into it.

If my players announced a plan like this in one session, by the time they actually got to the next one it would probably have morphed into a plan to get help from another kingdom entirely, or skip over the king and offer bribes to his military commanders, if not something totally off the wall like infect their own army with lycanthropy or forgetting about a clash of armies and sneaking into the enemy's country to paint insulting murals on all his castles, which will surely inspire a revolution.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 06:03 PM   #19
tanksoldier
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: Restoring Edmund Mortimer/Planning a Coup

Quote:
the current king is going to say "you can borrow a quarter of my army and you have to pay them at mercenary rates" if he agrees at all.
Either the player's and current King's goals don't align, or one or the other is ignoring the fact that they do.

The way to get someone top do something is to show them why they want to do it.

A King who is willing to risk half, or even a quarter, of his army on a mission that isn't vital to national interests is a fool.

A King who ISN'T willing to send his army to handle a problem that IS vital to his nation's interests is also a fool.
tanksoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.