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Old 02-27-2018, 08:29 AM   #1
Macunaima
 
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Default Mounted Infantry in Overrun

Can someone help me with this, please?

OK, infantry can mount a transport, using all of its movement, correct?

And it can dismount at any time without spending any movement at all correct?

So, given this, why would you ever leave infantry units mounted? Likewise, what is the effective difference between carrying infantry units internally and externally?
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Old 02-27-2018, 09:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: Mounted Infantry in Overrun

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Originally Posted by Macunaima View Post
OK, infantry can mount a transport, using all of its movement, correct?
Yes.

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And it can dismount at any time without spending any movement at all correct?
No. INF use all their movement to dismount, too.

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So, given this, why would you ever leave infantry units mounted? Likewise, what is the effective difference between carrying infantry units internally and externally?
As noted, your assumption is false, which will help you understand why you would leave INF mounted. The part you are missing is that INF can't mount AND dismount during the same turn. They either spend all their movement to mount, or spend it to dismount (5.11.3); not both.

Since you are asking about Overruns, 8.06.1 matters. This is the only case where an INF that mounted can also dismount during the same turn.

The main reason you would leave INF mounted is to gain a speed advantage over time. It's rare that it happens in practice, especially during an overrun. Staying mounted during an overrun is suicide.

As for internal vs external, INF that are internal can't fire; they are sitting ducks. The only time that INF being internal is a good idea is using trucks on roads to move faster (M4 vs M3). It's unlikely the extra 1 hex will be enough of an advantage compared to having better defense options, though.
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Last edited by GranitePenguin; 02-27-2018 at 09:19 AM. Reason: clarified my "no"
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: Mounted Infantry in Overrun

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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
The only time that INF being internal is a good idea is using trucks on roads to move faster (M4 vs M3). It's unlikely the extra 1 hex will be enough of an advantage compared to having better defense options, though.
The only time I consider 'inside' infantry is as a last resort. It's nice for the extra speed, but the "each squad separately" spillover effect is brutal even when they can shoot back.

Question about 8.06.1...there's a little ambiguity there.

8.06.1: Infantry riding on vehicles may dismount at the beginning of the overrun. They cannot remount after the combat. [...]

Is that the same as "Infantry may not remount as part of ending the overrun", or "Infantry may not remount in the same turn as an overrun they dismount in", or a different context entirely?
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:55 AM   #4
Macunaima
 
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Default Re: Mounted Infantry in Overrun

OK, that makes sense, GP but what about internally carried infantry? Can they dismount in an overrun?
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: Mounted Infantry in Overrun

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Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
Question about 8.06.1...there's a little ambiguity there.

8.06.1: Infantry riding on vehicles may dismount at the beginning of the overrun. They cannot remount after the combat. [...]

Is that the same as "Infantry may not remount as part of ending the overrun", or "Infantry may not remount in the same turn as an overrun they dismount in", or a different context entirely?
"the combat" is the overrun. If they dismount at the start of the overrun, they can't remount at the end of the overrun and continue moving on the vehicle. You have to decide between gaining the defensive advantage of spreading out your target surface vs being able to continue moving with the vehicle after the overrun.

In practice, it's almost never a good idea to stay mounted. The odds of the vehicle surviving for them to keep riding it after the overrun are extremely low.
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: Mounted Infantry in Overrun

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Originally Posted by Macunaima View Post
OK, that makes sense, GP but what about internally carried infantry? Can they dismount in an overrun?
No. Per 8.06.1: Infantry within vehicles (Trucks, Hovertrucks) do not dismount, cannot fight in the overrun, and are subject to 5.11.2.
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Last edited by GranitePenguin; 02-27-2018 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Edit: rules confirmation and I can't spell
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Old 02-27-2018, 01:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mounted Infantry in Overrun

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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
"the combat" is the overrun. If they dismount at the start of the overrun, they can't remount at the end of the overrun and continue moving on the vehicle. You have to decide between gaining the defensive advantage of spreading out your target surface vs being able to continue moving with the vehicle after the overrun.

In practice, it's almost never a good idea to stay mounted. The odds of the vehicle surviving for them to keep riding it after the overrun are extremely low.
Gotcha. I figured that the combat = overrun in that case, and have been working off of "infantry may not move or remount until next turn if they dismounted for an overrun", but started doubting myself when reading the thread.

It creates the opportunity for an interesting edge case...the rules don't explicitly address "Mount, ridden vehicle enters overrun, dismount to participate in overrun", and I see that leading to disagreements over which section has primacy.

My gut says 5.11.3 has primacy because 8.06.1 says 'May', but I could see how someone could argue that 8.06.1 has primacy because it doesn't say 'if able'.
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Old 02-27-2018, 03:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mounted Infantry in Overrun

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Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
Gotcha. I figured that the combat = overrun in that case, and have been working off of "infantry may not move or remount until next turn if they dismounted for an overrun", but started doubting myself when reading the thread.

It creates the opportunity for an interesting edge case...the rules don't explicitly address "Mount, ridden vehicle enters overrun, dismount to participate in overrun", and I see that leading to disagreements over which section has primacy.

My gut says 5.11.3 has primacy because 8.06.1 says 'May', but I could see how someone could argue that 8.06.1 has primacy because it doesn't say 'if able'.
I'd say it covers it just fine. The way the rules work is by stating a general case, then applying exceptions. Overrun rules are the exception to the general case defined by 5.11.3. The "may" in 8.06.1 is there to state that INF do not _have_ to dismount during an overrun if they don't want to. Overruns create a situation where INF can mount and dismount in the same turn, but it's limited to the overrun itself. 8.06.1 also maintains consistency because it does not allow the INF to remount after the overrun is over.
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