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Old 02-07-2018, 09:09 AM   #1
Raekai
 
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Default Ritual Path Magic power limitations (connection, space, etc.)

Hey, all.

As I play around with Ritual Path Magic and Incantation Magic, I have been wondering how to further flesh out some powers that I want. Of course, Pyramid #3/66 has info on making powers alongside RPM, but I want a few more options for that, and I want to work them both ways.

If I make an RPM spell into a power, I don't have the option to penalize it for connection or space. What would the limitation on an advantage be that requires connection/sympathy or space/consecration?

Furthermore, I look at the Ritual Adept advantage and the pieces within it. It's 10 points to... what? Negate a certain amount of penalties? Ignore these unseen limitations? I know what Ritual Adept (Space) does, but how does that cost break down?

I'm just trying to look under the hood a bit. Thanks!
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:46 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic power limitations (connection, space, etc.)

Sounds like Accessability to me.
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic power limitations (connection, space, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Sounds like Accessability to me.
Do you have a gut feeling as to how much each is worth? My thought was somewhere between -10% and -20%, but I'm not too confident about ballparking it.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic power limitations (connection, space, etc.)

I'd like to bump this (if that's okay) to see if I can get any more input on this. If not, I'll continue to see what I can come up with. Usually, the forums are my saving grace.

Thanks.
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic power limitations (connection, space, etc.)

Let's see: RPM imposes a -5 to the activation roll if you lack appropriate ritual elements, with a separate penalty for ritual space and for material components (the latter being based on the Sympathetic connection thing). A -5 penalty is less restrictive than not being able to use it at all, which is the default for Accessibility. I'll get back to that in a bit.

Power-Ups 8: Limitations gives the Accessibility values for ritual-like restrictions, and it doesn't match up with Pyramid #3/66: the latter counts gestures and chanting requirements together as -5%; the former counts each one on its own as -10%, for a combined -20%. The former also assigns -10% to needing material components; I'd use this value for the RPM Sympathetic connection requirement, but halved if its lack imposes a -5 penalty instead of outright forbidding it.

This is from memory; I don't have PU8 on hand as I write this. It's possible that its discussion of the Accessibility Limitation gives guidelines for only being able to use your power in specific places (such as ritually consecrated space), so I'd recommend reviewing it with this in mind. My gut instinct, though, would be to use a -10% value for Accessibility (Sacred Space), but halved if it imposes a -5 penalty instead of flat-out forbidding it.

(I'd use similar logic with respect to the Preparation Required Limitation to represent the Time element in RPM: if you can forgo the “required” preparation by taking on a -5 penalty, halve the Limitation's value.)

As for Ritual Adept: if you want the effects of Ritual Adept on Rituals-as-Powers (i.e., not having to worry about Ritual Space or Material Components), buy off the associated Accessibility Limitations from the Abilities that aren't hindered by them (or don't impose them in the first place) instead of taking a separate Advantage.

That is, Ritual Adept shouldn't apply to Powers: if you want its “benefits”, modify the powers' costs directly.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic power limitations (connection, space, etc.)

Also, note that GURPS Powers has something to say about this, too: p.178, under Spirit Powers, is a section on Ritual Modifiers. If you apply this option, then an Ability that would normally operate according to Long-Distance Modifiers can instead use penalties based on the Sympathetic connection you've managed to achieve. It also applies bonuses and penalties for Consecration (ritual space), Regalia (ritual trappings), and Ritual Length.

While it's listed as being specific to Abilities based on the Spirit power modifier, I'd be perfectly fine applying it to a RPM-based Ability. If you choose to go this route instead of trying to treat Ritual Elements as Accessibility Limitations, I would allow Ritual Adept to negate appropriate penalties. Specifically, I'd allow it to negate penalties for Consecration and Regalia: the “Affecting Others” modifiers are essentially an alternative to Long-Range Modifiers, and Ritual Length is phrased in terms of providing bonuses for taking your time; so there are no time-related penalties to negate.

Note that what penalties there are tend not to be as harsh as their RPM counterparts: the Consecration penalties, for instance, only apply to ground that has been ritually desecrated instead of being a default if you haven't done the minimum consecration. So you're not going to get as much bang for your buck from Ritual Adept.
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Last edited by dataweaver; 02-11-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 02-12-2018, 05:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ritual Path Magic power limitations (connection, space, etc.)

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
Also, note that GURPS Powers has something to say about this, too: p.178, under Spirit Powers, is a section on Ritual Modifiers. If you apply this option, then an Ability that would normally operate according to Long-Distance Modifiers can instead use penalties based on the Sympathetic connection you've managed to achieve. It also applies bonuses and penalties for Consecration (ritual space), Regalia (ritual trappings), and Ritual Length.

While it's listed as being specific to Abilities based on the Spirit power modifier, I'd be perfectly fine applying it to a RPM-based Ability. If you choose to go this route instead of trying to treat Ritual Elements as Accessibility Limitations, I would allow Ritual Adept to negate appropriate penalties. Specifically, I'd allow it to negate penalties for Consecration and Regalia: the “Affecting Others” modifiers are essentially an alternative to Long-Range Modifiers, and Ritual Length is phrased in terms of providing bonuses for taking your time; so there are no time-related penalties to negate.

Note that what penalties there are tend not to be as harsh as their RPM counterparts: the Consecration penalties, for instance, only apply to ground that has been ritually desecrated instead of being a default if you haven't done the minimum consecration. So you're not going to get as much bang for your buck from Ritual Adept.
This. Is. Brilliant.

First of all, thank you so much for your two very informative posts. For the first one, I had done my fair share of digging in PU8 without finding too much of what I wanted. But it turns out Powers had what I was looking for! Thank you so much for pointing me to Spirit Powers.

So, if I'm understanding you right, you would go either one of two routes: a) count these as accessibility limitations and buy them off as needed or b) have them be inherent to the abilities but let Ritual Adept count for them? Food for thought for sure. I like both approaches a lot, but (b) is nice because it would mean less math and stuff on the player's side of things.
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