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Old 01-11-2018, 10:41 PM   #31
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

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Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
...What keeps him from going downstairs? (Or to any other afterlife? Doesn't Valhalla exist in the Marvel universe?)
Valhalla does, yes, as does the Greco-Roman underworld ruled by Hades/Pluto (the latter comes complete with slot machines for deceased heroes to win a resurrection), not to mention at least three Hell dimensions that I'm aware of (ruled by Mephisto, Satannish, and Marduk Kurios; the latter is Hellstorm's father).

Quite possibly his Devout Roman Catholic quirk prevents him from going to a non-Judeo-Christian afterlife or to Hell. His belief was too firm for him to end up downstairs, despite his physical appearance.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:58 PM   #32
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

I'm no theologian, but I was always under the impression that you went to Hell by not being allowed in Heaven. The idea that anyone is physically unable to go to Hell seems to contradict all that Original Sin fluff.

Then again, I'm not sure how closely any cosmology with two pagan storm gods can align with the Vatican party line...
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:22 PM   #33
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

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I'm no theologian, but I was always under the impression that you went to Hell by not being allowed in Heaven. The idea that anyone is physically unable to go to Hell seems to contradict all that Original Sin fluff.

Then again, I'm not sure how closely any cosmology with two pagan storm gods can align with the Vatican party line...
<shrug> None of the known Hells are "the" Hell. Though Mephisto will sometimes pretend to be "the" Devil just to mess with people.

Anyway, you end up spending your afterlife with Mephisto by making deals with him and/or otherwise positively corrupting yourself. Maybe giving in to despair too but not because some heavenly travel agency booked you there.

It's not like DC which has what seems to be a Judeo-Christian "Heaven" and a more or less as described Hell as contrast. "Real" Angels too.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:20 AM   #34
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

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Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
I'm no theologian, but I was always under the impression that you went to Hell by not being allowed in Heaven. The idea that anyone is physically unable to go to Hell seems to contradict all that Original Sin fluff.

Then again, I'm not sure how closely any cosmology with two pagan storm gods can align with the Vatican party line...
Well it's a justification for giving a superhero a new power and angst, not some theological statement. :) The story is in Amazing X-Men 1-5 (2014) if you want to find out just how fanciful said justification is.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:24 AM   #35
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

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<shrug> None of the known Hells are "the" Hell. Though Mephisto will sometimes pretend to be "the" Devil just to mess with people.

Anyway, you end up spending your afterlife with Mephisto by making deals with him and/or otherwise positively corrupting yourself. Maybe giving in to despair too but not because some heavenly travel agency booked you there.

It's not like DC which has what seems to be a Judeo-Christian "Heaven" and a more or less as described Hell as contrast. "Real" Angels too.
Constantine is actually a DC character. And both franchises have multiple hells and kings of them (Trigon, Mephisto, Satan, Lucifer)
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:35 AM   #36
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

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Constantine is actually a DC character. And both franchises have multiple hells and kings of them (Trigon, Mephisto, Satan, Lucifer)
Technically, we're still talking Nightcrawler.

A recent-ish run of Ghost Rider (some time in the last decade) depicted the Judeo-Christian Heaven and claimed the Ghost Riders (with the exception of the one formed by Mephisto grafting a demon to Johnny Blaze) were part of Heaven's "Black Ops" Angels (this was inspiration for the background of the Rider in the second Ghost Rider movie).

Still, Marvel seems to treat the Judeo-Christian Heaven as "one afterlife among many"; in any case I stand by my statement that Kurt's Devout Believer Quirk prevents him from going to any other afterlife. Contrast with Bill son of Bill over in Thor's title who earned his spot in Valhalla defending Balder (from an attack of renegade Asgardians working for Doom).
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:38 AM   #37
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Constantine is actually a DC character. And both franchises have multiple hells and kings of them (Trigon, Mephisto, Satan, Lucifer)
Trigon was a hell-ish interdimensional conqueror but not even a demon interacting with Earth is any regular way.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:33 AM   #38
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Trigon was a hell-ish interdimensional conqueror but not even a demon interacting with Earth is any regular way.
According to his DC wiki his race is "Demons" and isn't he the father of several demons that embody the seven deadly sins (or try to)?
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:08 AM   #39
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According to his DC wiki his race is "Demons" and isn't he the father of several demons that embody the seven deadly sins (or try to)?
Ghu knows what they've done with him lately but originally he was only the father of Raven and from far, far away even in multi-dimensional terms. He certainly didn't plug into any even semi-Christian theology and didn't have anything to do with Earth humans and their souls.
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