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Old 01-02-2018, 10:07 PM   #1
cupbearer
 
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Default Divine favor - Smite wrong cost or effect?

HI

I was looking at the costs for the learned prayer Smite and it seems confusing -

1. It says that it causes 2d damage to any malign creature within 4 yards, and it seems to say that the enemy is automatically hit and that the hit can't be defended and it ignores DR but the cosmic modifier in that case should be +700%, but the listed modifier for this is only +300% am i misreading this?

2. The cosmic modifier no die roll says that the attack still has to be possible to be rolled (meaning a final skill of 3 or better) in order for it to work and in that case it automatically works. However in the smite description it just says that the attack hits so long as it is within 4 yards, why is this?

Am i misunderstanding the rules or is this a mistake or some sort of bespoke designed ability that breaks the RAW?

Oliver
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:25 PM   #2
ericthered
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Default Re: Divine favor - Smite wrong cost or effect?

Smite is an area attack. It hits everything in its radius, but it only has the ability to hurt evil supernatural creatures. If you do it next to your vampire buddy, he's going to hurt just like everyone else.

This means it can be dodged. Its hard to do so for two reasons:

1) low signature means not every foe will realize what you're about to bring down on them.

2) area effect means only dodges that move the subject out of the effected area will save them. so either they are at the edge of effect and leap back, or they have a way to dodge more than one yard.

Blink is particularly effective at escaping the effect.
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:20 AM   #3
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Divine favor - Smite wrong cost or effect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Smite is an area attack. It hits everything in its radius, but it only has the ability to hurt evil supernatural creatures. If you do it next to your vampire buddy, he's going to hurt just like everyone else.

This means it can be dodged. Its hard to do so for two reasons:

1) low signature means not every foe will realize what you're about to bring down on them.

2) area effect means only dodges that move the subject out of the effected area will save them. so either they are at the edge of effect and leap back, or they have a way to dodge more than one yard.

Blink is particularly effective at escaping the effect.
I've played a character with Smite a few times. Against the undead and demons, it's amazing. Against everyone else, it's useless. And you have to walk within 4 yds of the bad guys. That's not always healthy.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:10 AM   #4
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Default Re: Divine favor - Smite wrong cost or effect?

Smite is built with Emanation, which means it's an area attack that bursts out from the caster. There's no active defense roll when you attack an area; see Area-Effect Attacks, B413. That's a normal part of the rules for any AE attack, so the text for the Cosmic modifer No Die Roll Required doesn't apply. It comes as part the +100% Area Effect. Victims can still retreat out of the area, or Dodge and Drop (B377).

The build is paying for the +300% Irresistible Attack, which is what makes Smite bypass DR. (But that's all you get for that +300% -- not that bypassing DR and other resistance is something to be sneered at!)

Abilities don't all have an activation roll by default. (You could add one, if desired, with "Requires (Attr) Roll" (Powers 112), for which you can also substitute a Hard skill.) The base Innate Attack normally has a to-hit roll, because it's normally a ranged attack, but it doesn't have a roll to activate and then another to hit. The AE takes away the "to hit" part, and Emanation also means the attack loses its range. (That's why Emanation is a net Limitation; also notice that Emanation requires AE, which is really where the price increase comes from. A zero-range attack that you can target only on yourself without an AE would be pretty useless, eh?)

Last edited by Anaraxes; 01-03-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Divine favor - Smite wrong cost or effect?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
A zero-range attack that you can target only on yourself without an AE would be pretty useless, eh?)
I don't know about that. Would it work on other things in your hex? Swarms crawling all over you? Internal parasites? There are probably some useful builds you could represent that way.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: Divine favor - Smite wrong cost or effect?

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I don't know about that. Would it work on other things in your hex?
Good point. (Though I suspect that's what Aura was intended for, rather than Emanation.) I was thinking of "zero range" as literally not beyond the surface of your skin, but even that leaves open the possibilities you mention as for internal parasites. So you could talk me into an Emanation build with no AE modifier, despite that line in RAW.

"Radius 1" is a single hex, at least for magic In Ch. 5, so that would cover the close combat cases. But I notice the AE modifier only starts at 2 yards. So now I'm not quite sure you'd build a ranged IA that distinguishes between a point target and everything in single hex. Off the cuff, maybe just "AE level 0" for +0%, hoping that the disad of hitting your friends in close combat balances the advantages for swarms.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Divine favor - Smite wrong cost or effect?

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Originally Posted by cupbearer View Post
It says that it causes 2d damage to any malign creature within 4 yards, and it seems to say that the enemy is automatically hit and that the hit can't be defended
Actually, it says, "When this miracle is invoked, every malign supernatural being within four yards immediately takes 2d burning damage, regardless of DR, insubstantiality, etc." I didn't explicitly say anything about active defenses because they work as they always do against area attacks -- they're not normally possible unless the foe is close enough to the edge to attempt a Dodge and Drop, or has some sort of powerful supernatural defense (like Warp or the Blink spell). This is not because of any sort of unspoken Cosmic modifier; it's just how all area attacks work.

Quote:
The cosmic modifier no die roll says that the attack still has to be possible to be rolled (meaning a final skill of 3 or better) in order for it to work and in that case it automatically works. However in the smite description it just says that the attack hits so long as it is within 4 yards, why is this?
The Emanation modifier makes this possible. You don't have to roll to hit or activate an attack with Emanation.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: Divine favor - Smite wrong cost or effect?

Cool guys thanks very much!
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