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Old 12-19-2017, 10:49 AM   #41
Dalin
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bully

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I don't think Bully is any more (or less) obviously stupid than Bad Temper, Charitable, Compulsive Lying, Lecherousness, On the Edge, Overconfidence or Trickster. Nor, for that matter, Pacifism: Cannot Kill or Vow: Never use weapons.

If anything, Bully with high SC represents a character defect that the character might be aware of and trying to fix, which he can control to some extent when it is really important.
I agree. Although I haven't seen bully come up as a PC disadvantage in a while, I can imagine it fitting in with the right group. Indeed, reading this discussion is giving me the itch to try it out. One of the Top Features of GURPS, in my opinion, is the ability to try out tragic flaws in different combinations. I would certainly clear this choice with both GM and other players (as I would with any character concept), but it might be fun to attempt playing a recovering bully or a bully who has other good characteristics that make it worth dealing with their obnoxious qualities.

For example, a character with a bit of status could be a fun version that would play reasonably well with most traditional "heroic" groups. Your typical social snob who is actively mean to lower status folks. They might be fighting for a good cause (save the kingdom, save the world, etc.) and doing lots of other good in the world (money to charity, etc.), but they simply don't see lower status individuals as worthy of respect. Depending on the SCR value, this could be dialed up or down in intensity. My sense is that as long as they have plenty of lower status people to bully, the point value would be worth it, and would give the GM plenty of room to create nuanced social challenges that could be fun for the whole group. The character may not bully people of higher status, but the reaction penalty would still apply due to their reputation for indelicacy.
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Old 12-19-2017, 04:03 PM   #42
Michael Cule
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bully

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
Some heroic bully fictional examples :

Tony DiNozzo from NCIS
I fricking hate Tony DiNozzo. And the whole abusive relationship between him and Gibbs.

It was only Abby and Ducky that kept me watching...
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Old 12-19-2017, 04:26 PM   #43
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bully

The most 'famous' examples of characters I can think of (that either were protagonists or later became them) are:

Edmund from the Narnia books, Kubiak from Parker Lewis Can't Lose, and pretty much all the main cast on Big Bang Theory.
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bully

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Originally Posted by Michael Cule View Post
I fricking hate Tony DiNozzo. And the whole abusive relationship between him and Gibbs.

It was only Abby and Ducky that kept me watching...
Abby, the lone person able to perform the jobs of literally hundreds of people took the TV trope to silly levels for me. At least C.S.I. made it a dozen or so people.
But Gibbs' bullying was a bit much as well. DiNozzo's constant narcissism and sexual harassment just wasn't funny.
Zeva's psychotic violence played off for laughs because, "lol, she's female" made me stop watching.
Loved Ducky and his assistant though.
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Old 12-24-2017, 05:28 AM   #45
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bully

By the way - I'm now wondering if Bully, as described, is under-valued. It's a -10 point disadvantage (at Self-Control 12) which, taking the description literally, generates automatic -2 reactions for the character. An Odious Personal Habit that generates the same penalty is also worth -10 points -- but Bully also involves the danger that you'll try it on with someone you really shouldn't, which could be downright life-threatening at times.

A more sensible, less literal reading of the text might say that you only get the -2 reactions from people who've seen you being a jerk, so they don't kick on on first encounters and you can try self-control to avoid them. ("You need a favour from the Earl of Foo. Rumour is, he's a nice person. Try not to be a jerk.") However, I've always had the sense that Odious Personal Habit penalties also shouldn't kick in until the NPC has had a chance to observe the odiousness in action...
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:02 AM   #46
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bully

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Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
A more sensible, less literal reading of the text might say that you only get the -2 reactions from people who've seen you being a jerk, so they don't kick on on first encounters and you can try self-control to avoid them. ("You need a favour from the Earl of Foo. Rumour is, he's a nice person. Try not to be a jerk.")
That, and the danger of bullying someone who could do you serious, non-social harm, is exactly why I think it is reasonable at -10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters
However, I've always had the sense that Odious Personal Habit penalties also shouldn't kick in until the NPC has had a chance to observe the odiousness in action...
I've always felt, conversely, that a full-blown Odious Personal Habit should always kick in right away. It's either something you're doing all the time, or something terrible you're known for at first sight (for example, Odious Personal/Racial Habit, "Eats sapient beings"). Note that Power-Ups: Quirks makes it a quirk to have an Odious Personal Habit that gives you the full reaction penalty, but only when something specific comes up ("Laughs like a hyena at jokes"), so I think that supports my interpretation.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:33 AM   #47
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bully

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
By the way - I'm now wondering if Bully, as described, is under-valued. It's a -10 point disadvantage (at Self-Control 12) which, taking the description literally, generates automatic -2 reactions for the character. An Odious Personal Habit that generates the same penalty is also worth -10 points -- but Bully also involves the danger that you'll try it on with someone you really shouldn't, which could be downright life-threatening at times.

A more sensible, less literal reading of the text might say that you only get the -2 reactions from people who've seen you being a jerk, so they don't kick on on first encounters and you can try self-control to avoid them. ("You need a favour from the Earl of Foo. Rumour is, he's a nice person. Try not to be a jerk.") However, I've always had the sense that Odious Personal Habit penalties also shouldn't kick in until the NPC has had a chance to observe the odiousness in action...
It seems to me that the -2 reaction is the consequences of people being unhappy when they become the target or witness of bullying. To lump on any extra penalties sounds like double-dipping for the price of the trait.
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