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Old 11-07-2017, 02:55 PM   #61
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Using retreats without being attacked

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Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
MA also proposed a double distance (2 step) retreat technique at -2 to defense if I recall. Here we can say it is at least a yard right?
Probably, but I doubt it actually matters for anything important.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:09 PM   #62
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Default Re: Using retreats without being attacked

Hex occupation is pretty valuable in combat, anyway. If someone enters Close range and throws a punch and you do a retreat then step back on your turn, you are now at range 2 and he needs to take 1 step to kick you or 2 steps (dedicated attack or move+attack using 2 MP) to punch you, both of which would compromise his defenses. Allowing retreats to be "wasted" by giving a bonus step (or requiring a step or MP to be stocked to pay for it to penalize defenders) would kind of even the odds a bit. It shouldn't be this difficult for a guy walking forward to keep up with a guy walking backward.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:20 PM   #63
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Default Re: Using retreats without being attacked

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Hex occupation is pretty valuable in combat, anyway.
Yes, because hex range is representitive of significant battlefield positioning; which I am fairly sure is what Kromm means by "bookkeeping measure". What doesn't actually matter is if you are actually 33" inches apart at 23.8 milliseconds into the turn and 41.35" apart at 845.42 milliseconds.
Quote:
If someone enters Close range and throws a punch and you do a retreat then step back on your turn, you are now at range 2 and he needs to take 1 step to kick you or 2 steps (dedicated attack or move+attack using 2 MP) to punch you, both of which would compromise his defenses. Allowing retreats to be "wasted" by giving a bonus step (or requiring a step or MP to be stocked to pay for it to penalize defenders) would kind of even the odds a bit. It shouldn't be this difficult for a guy walking forward to keep up with a guy walking backward.
It actually is hard to fistfight someone who is only backing away from you, until they run into/trip over something.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:29 AM   #64
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Default Re: Using retreats without being attacked

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Hex occupation is pretty valuable in combat, anyway.
And for that reason I never use hexes. All combat is role-played out with sometime a schematic layout with the PC (and visible NPCs) estimated postions. They want exact distances (to the step accurate), make a critcal Vision-roll or constantly use range-finders.

I always find tactical combat to take away the rpg part of a combat. It becomes to calcuable for the players (counting hexes).

If they do something that makes sense, is logical, its a go. If it doesn't, it's a no go. I they wanna mis-use the rules, somehow I roll a critical failure for them and they fall, trip, slip, bump into, etc.....
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:35 PM   #65
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Default Re: Using retreats without being attacked

Ever since playing with the first-edition rules, we've allowed using a retreat without needing to be attacked. It seemed clear that if you can react to a successful attack that way, then others should also be able to react to an unsuccessful attack, to anything or to nothing in the same way. There seemed to be no reason to disallow it that made sense (except from the point of view of people merely wanting things to be clean & simple).

We often played with a house rule that using a retreat meant a reduction in movement points on the next turn if the retreater's next turn maneuver used movement points. (e.g. if you retreat sideways or backwards or rotate more than a hexside, you have -2 movement points next turn if you Move.)

And clearly, retreating sideways/backwards would interrupt a sprint.

Wait was named "Step and Wait" in earlier editions of Advanced Combat, and was more flexible than the bizarre 4e "write down a specific trigger" system. Again, there seems to be no reason for those changes except to make things seem cleaner & simpler.
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:51 PM   #66
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Default Re: Using retreats without being attacked

I'd probably just change the step rules. Something like:

Step
If a maneuver includes a step element, you may take that step at any time between the start of your turn and the start of your next turn. If used as a response to an attack, treat as a retreat, dodge and drop, or sacrificial dodge, as appropriate. If attempted as a response to another action (such as a person trying to run past you), make a dodge check to successfully interrupt; otherwise you still move but too late to matter.
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:11 AM   #67
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Default Re: Using retreats without being attacked

Your idea makes sense to me. Leg Parries are another thing where this would be an issue.
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:59 AM   #68
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Default Re: Using retreats without being attacked

Er, but it would be a pretty major change to how combat works, just to try to simplify something that doesn't really need simplifying if you just allow people to retreat without being attacked, without making it the same thing as a step.

Also, that's not really a full rule explaining how your intercept suggestion would work.
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