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Old 11-02-2017, 11:08 AM   #41
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Default Re: Lost in Dreams II (OCC)

Noticing the shared modifiers for Jumper and Clairsentience. Is the 1 hour of preparation reflecting the time it takes to fall asleep?

Uncontrollable failing a will check I guess means you need to fall asleep while upset/stressed/scared?

Re dreaming skill roll: would penalties for taking less time or bonuses for taking more time apply?

Curious about the Cosmic +50%. Is what that does some kind of mystery to discover or is it just something like they are part of a shared power category, or maybe cosmic: defensive to prevent negation or cosmic: adds utility to be usable if inhabiting other bodies?

Reason I am curious about Powers is they could potentially be made cheaper if considered psionics. Jumper can fall under Teleportation (B257) and Clairsentience under ESP (B255-256) which would give each another -10% and open up the possibility of purchasing Talent for a +1 to rolls per 5 points. I guess buying up the Dreaming skill would be cheaper though, unless acquiring other psi in same category which did not default to Dreaming.

Since both have Uncontrollable / Unconscious Only, B254 comes to mind. It allows psi to be "potential advantages" (B33) which function as if they had these limitations. Rather than a -% subject to -80% cap it is a halving of final cost.

So it could potentially be...

-Potential Psionic Powers- (uncontrollable, unconscious only) total 172.5/2=86.25 rounding up to 87.

B42 (base 50+145%) Clairsentience (Requires Immediate Preparation 1 Hour -75%, skill roll is dreaming, only when sleeping -20%, cosmic +50%, Increased Range x2 Million +200%, ESP -10%) [122.5]

B64 (base 100-50%) Jumper (world, New worlds +50%, Naked -30%, skill roll is dreaming, only when sleeping -20%, requires Immediate Preparation 1 hour -75%, cosmic +50%, Drift -15%, Teleportation -10%) [50]

Clairsentience seemed a bit off in your initial total too, had not looked closely.

(35) Clairsentience (Requires Immediate Preparation 1 Hour -75%, skill roll is dreaming, only when sleeping -20%, Unconscious only -20%, uncontrollable -10%, cosmic +50%, Increased Range x2 Million +200%) [35]
200+50=250 enhancements
75+20+20+10=125 limitations
Total modifier +125% on 50 point ability would be 62.5 rounded to 63. Not sure how it came down to 35. Was range accurate?
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:42 AM   #42
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Default Re: Lost in Dreams II (OCC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
Noticing the shared modifiers for Jumper and Clairsentience. Is the 1 hour of preparation reflecting the time it takes to fall asleep?
Kind of. You don't just have to fall asleep, you have to be asleep for a while.

Quote:
Uncontrollable failing a will check I guess means you need to fall asleep while upset/stressed/scared?
No, stress doesn't actually trigger this. In fact, it's less likely to go off when you're stressed. Yes, this is not uncontrollable as RAW. Its that the power goes off when it would be inconvenient for the user. This is pretty much GM fiat until you learn the dreaming skill, and even then the dreaming skill only allows to try and stop traveling.

Quote:
Re dreaming skill roll: would penalties for taking less time or bonuses for taking more time apply?
I've never done it. Its probably doable if someone wanted to try.

Quote:
Curious about the Cosmic +50%. Is what that does some kind of mystery to discover or is it just something like they are part of a shared power category, or maybe cosmic: defensive to prevent negation or cosmic: adds utility to be usable if inhabiting other bodies?
Its defensive. We've had one player leave both Coventry and Yrth.

Quote:
Reason I am curious about Powers is they could potentially be made cheaper if considered psionics. Jumper can fall under Teleportation (B257) and Clairsentience under ESP (B255-256) which would give each another -10% and open up the possibility of purchasing Talent for a +1 to rolls per 5 points. I guess buying up the Dreaming skill would be cheaper though, unless acquiring other psi in same category which did not default to Dreaming.
They are not Psionics. They aren't effected by psychotronics, have no known countermeasures, don't come with any disadvantages, channel no energy, and are pretty difficult to stop. In as much as they have a power modifier, that modifier is cosmic.

Quote:
Since both have Uncontrollable / Unconscious Only, B254 comes to mind. It allows psi to be "potential advantages" (B33) which function as if they had these limitations. Rather than a -% subject to -80% cap it is a halving of final cost.
Yes, you could build it that way. The trick there is that a potential advantage has a trigger that gives you the develop their abilities: they remove it a little at a time.



Quote:
Clairsentience seemed a bit off in your initial total too, had not looked closely.
I used multiplicative modifiers.

Quote:
Was range accurate?
On second look, range is 190%, not 200%. but that won't be the whole of the problem, and I'm more inclined to extend the range than to reduce the cost.
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Old 11-05-2017, 12:59 AM   #43
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Default Re: Lost in Dreams II (OCC)

Ah, so you were using Powers 102, now I know how to approach it... You total enhancements, apply that and create new total, then total limitations and apply them... So if it were rewrote it would be good to list enhancements first then limitations. So I'll math this out and see how it works. I figure you only used it for this power?

(40)Jumper (world, New worlds +50%, Naked -30%, Uncontrollable -10%, Unconscious only -20%, skill roll is dreaming, only when sleeping -20%, requires Immediate Preparation 1 hour -75%, cosmic +50%, Drift -15%) [40]

firstly the "in common" limitation package, worth a total of -125%

-0% Skill Roll Is Dreaming
-20% Accessibility: Only While Sleeping
-10% Uncontrollable
-20% Unconscious Only
-75% Requires Immediate Preparation 1 hour.
I'm just gonna represent these below as "-125% SLEEPINESS" for simplified calculations.

Jumper Enhancements (total +100%)

+50% New Worlds
+50% Cosmic Power Category (includes Cosmic: Defensive +50% free)
Jumper Limitations (total -170%)

-125% SLEEPINESS
-15% Drift
-30% Naked
Total: 30 points (OP still needs change from 40) does not use multiplicative modifiers.

Clairsentience Enhancements (total +250%) changes 50 points to (multiply by 3.5) 175 points

+200% (increased range x 2 mllion) 10 yards > 20 million yards
+50% Cosmic Power Category (includes Cosmic: Defensive +50% free)
Clairsentience Limitations (total )

-125% SLEEPINESS
Since limitations cap out at -80%, dividing 175 by 5 gives 35 points.

But if I change this to 190% as you suggest.. 50 + 240% gives 170 points, div 5 is 34 points.

Here's something else I'm wondering about... can these powers be used at the same time? They seem kinda mutually exclusive... like if you were spending 1 hour apiece to prep whilst sleeping, would you spend 2 hours to simultaneously ready both?

It seems like coinciding may result in coactivation where you throw your body into a new dimension but your mind may not immediately inhabit it?

Was wondering if maybe they might be modeled using the optional "Alternative Abilities" rule on powers page 11.

With the adjustment of 40>30 for jumper, this would make Clairsentience the more expensive ability. So if Jumper was 1/5 it would only cost 6 points, but you could only use Clairsentience or Jumper, not both at the same time.

The drawback to that approach is mutual neutralization, so paying full price for both as you have done means 1 can burn out without burning out the other. This could be important with stuff like fails on Extra Effort, which forces a check for crippling per P160. Alternate Abilities means EE fail on 1 could cripple both, full price means EE fail on 1 could only cripple what you were using but not the one you weren't using.
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Old 11-05-2017, 03:37 AM   #44
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Default Re: Lost in Dreams II (OCC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
Ah, so you were using Powers 102, now I know how to approach it... You total enhancements, apply that and create new total, then total limitations and apply them... So if it were rewrote it would be good to list enhancements first then limitations. So I'll math this out and see how it works. I figure you only used it for this power?
All but the simplest of powers use multiplicative modifiers. for example:


Quote:
Jumper Enhancements (total +100%)
Jumper Limitations (total -170%)
Total: 30 points (OP still needs change from 40) does not use multiplicative modifiers.
.

Yes, without multiplicative its 30 points. With multiplicative its 40 points (200/5 because of the -80% cap), and I intentionally used it.

Quote:
Clairsentience Enhancements (total +250%) changes 50 points to (multiply by 3.5) 175 points

But if I change this to 190% as you suggest.. 50 + 240% gives 170 points, div 5 is 34 points.
correct. Though I actually suggested changing the range to x5 million, keeping the numbers pentaphillic.

I should point out these are campaign advantages, and they don't have to come out of your point budget. They are essentially free.

Quote:
Here's something else I'm wondering about... can these powers be used at the same time? They seem kinda mutually exclusive... like if you were spending 1 hour apiece to prep whilst sleeping, would you spend 2 hours to simultaneously ready both?
They are used at the same time all the time. There is some argument to be made that they should be linked. If you read any of the old threads, It will become immediately apparent. When you arrive in a new world, you receive a dream with hints about what's going on in this particular world.


Quote:
Was wondering if maybe they might be modeled using the optional "Alternative Abilities" rule on powers page 11.
So no, its not a good model, because they absolutely get used at the same time. but its a nice thought.

Quote:
The drawback to that approach is mutual neutralization, so paying full price for both as you have done means 1 can burn out without burning out the other. This could be important with stuff like fails on Extra Effort, which forces a check for crippling per P160. Alternate Abilities means EE fail on 1 could cripple both, full price means EE fail on 1 could only cripple what you were using but not the one you weren't using.
mutual neutralization might actually be a feature, not a bug. I've never seen any one use extra effort on the abilities though, and we've never seen a critical failure... interesting thought.
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:00 AM   #45
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Default Re: Lost in Dreams II (OCC)

Hm actually I may have been wrong to bring up EE, just noticed P160 singled out Clairsentience and Warp for not using EE if other rules already exist. Although I wouldn't see harm in stacking them (2 FP to double Clairsentience range, then apply EE rules and rolls to see if it is possible to do it further. +100% takes a -20 roll (is -1 to will roll per +5%) so that extra 1 FP wouldn't go too far. P161 "godlike extra effort" might increase that though, 10 FP would only make a -2 roll to get +100% range.

When you arrive in a new world, you receive a dream with hints
Sounds kinda sequential? Like you sleep 1 hour on world A, teleport to the new world B, sleep a 2nd hour on world B as your mind prepares to wander the world, then spend some time getting the vision, then wake up?

I guess that could cause a problem with lack of intel if something managed to wake you up the second you arrived.

I think since Link causes shared activation costs it would allow them to share the 1 hour prep time so that you could get your Clairsentient vision the second you got there.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:07 AM   #46
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Default Re: Lost in Dreams II (OCC)

The exact order they trigger in is actually still unknown, and could possibly be a plot point. Though linking them and counting the 1 hour as the same for both is probably most correct.
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