Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Car Wars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-27-2017, 04:12 PM   #11
Blue Ghost
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spinward Marches
Default Re: House rules feedback

Races are fairly controlled events though, with lots of rules and regulations to protect the drivers. I think on the open road most deaths are still by motorcycle.
Blue Ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 04:55 PM   #12
Suncrush
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
Races are fairly controlled events though, with lots of rules and regulations to protect the drivers. I think on the open road most deaths are still by motorcycle.
This thought was brought about by loss-of-control wrecks on a duel track.
Suncrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 07:02 PM   #13
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncrush View Post
I was doing a motorcycle race last night, and found I need a house rule for motorcycle wrecks. If you look up MotoGP on Youtube, you'll see amply demonstrated that losing control of a racing bike at 150 mph is usually a walk-away-from it incident with modern racing gear, but in CW, it's an autosplat, hope-you-had-a-pre-programmed-clone event.
With cycle wrecks, even more than usual: "It ain't the fall what kills ya -- it's the sudden stop". Note the manner in which the cyclist comes off at 150 MPH -- if it's a "low-side" (where the bike just lays down on one side), the biker impacting the pavement in a glorified sideswipe, which drastically reduces the impact damage (fatal road-rash is possible, but unlikely -- that's what the "leathers" are for); if it's a "high-side" (where the cyclist gets chucked over the bike), the impact is a sideswipe after being dropped from 4-5' in the air.

Most cycle-racing fatalities have resulted from the deceased either getting run over by another bike; or hitting a solid object at a substantial clip; or just-plain hitting the pavement at the wrong angle. Most of these are *not* "sideswipe"-type collisions.... (I'd provide links to YouTube videos, but this is a Family-Friendly Forum; so the web searches for such incidents is left as an exercise for the reader.)

So one doesn't really need a "house rule" for this -- just understand what happens when a cyclist dismounts a bike at-speed; it isn't necessarily the cyclist slamming into a solid object at full-tilt.
__________________
"Dale *who*?"

The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course:
1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End.

Last edited by 43Supporter; 10-27-2017 at 07:10 PM.
43Supporter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2017, 04:19 AM   #14
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: House rules feedback

"A driver or passenger may jump from a moving vehicle. Roll for
damage as if the jumper were hit by a vehicle (with a damage modifier
of 1) going 10 mph slower than the vehicle was going. The jumper
lands in any adjacent square, and may move and/or fire beginning the
next turn."

Given you only have 3DPs though your outcomes are somewhat digital. Dead, Incapacitated, Injured or unharmed. You really need to be getting your speed into the 15mph and below to stand a reasonable chance of survival.

Unless you are doing 25 or less you are going to take a full dice of damage and that is likely to be fatal, at 45 and above you are taking 2 dice and that is almost guaranteed to be fatal and at minimum incapacitation.

CW doesn't recognise abrasion damage, it only deals with impact damage and BA doesn't protect against that in any way. There is no damage for leathers to protect against. Any dismount is considered a hard impact. You might consider the Kevlar panels in RL leathers to be some form of impact armour, but impact armour in the game is no comparison.

There is no mechanism to determine if you sideswipe the road or land on your head so you are going to have to house rule something. The rule above doesn't consider damage from sliding (you are stationary in the square next to the bike). It also assumes a voluntary dismount, but as there is no rule that throws a cyclist from the bike this is fine.

You might consider that when you slide off on bend, in reality you don't inherit the full forward speed you had before the slide (plus at that point even race bikes are moving at more reasonable speeds). If you take a vector view, the relevant component might move the impact speed into the 1d or less survivability zone.

However you do it, a house rule is going to be necessary.

Last edited by swordtart; 10-28-2017 at 04:37 AM.
swordtart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2017, 08:17 AM   #15
Suncrush
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
"A driver or passenger may jump from a moving vehicle. Roll for
damage as if the jumper were hit by a vehicle (with a damage modifier
of 1) going 10 mph slower than the vehicle was going. The jumper
lands in any adjacent square, and may move and/or fire beginning the
next turn."

Given you only have 3DPs though your outcomes are somewhat digital. Dead, Incapacitated, Injured or unharmed. You really need to be getting your speed into the 15mph and below to stand a reasonable chance of survival.

Unless you are doing 25 or less you are going to take a full dice of damage and that is likely to be fatal, at 45 and above you are taking 2 dice and that is almost guaranteed to be fatal and at minimum incapacitation.

CW doesn't recognise abrasion damage, it only deals with impact damage and BA doesn't protect against that in any way. There is no damage for leathers to protect against. Any dismount is considered a hard impact. You might consider the Kevlar panels in RL leathers to be some form of impact armour, but impact armour in the game is no comparison.

There is no mechanism to determine if you sideswipe the road or land on your head so you are going to have to house rule something. The rule above doesn't consider damage from sliding (you are stationary in the square next to the bike). It also assumes a voluntary dismount, but as there is no rule that throws a cyclist from the bike this is fine.

You might consider that when you slide off on bend, in reality you don't inherit the full forward speed you had before the slide (plus at that point even race bikes are moving at more reasonable speeds). If you take a vector view, the relevant component might move the impact speed into the 1d or less survivability zone.

However you do it, a house rule is going to be necessary.
I think what we are going to do is just say that a rider who isn't struck by anything is out of the race, but otherwise unharmed. Seems consistent with MotoGP.
Suncrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 06:00 PM   #16
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, UK
Default Re: House rules feedback

.
Due to the lack of effective Pedestrian Firepower ( especially against Military Vehicles ) , we've upped the damage by many Ped Rocket weapons by 1 Dice .

Reading the 'State of the Art Part 1' from ADQ #7/2 & the weapons description in AutoDuel Second Edition , it's clear that something was off .
Thus VLAW: 2d , LAW: 3d , Bazooka: 4d , HLAW: 4d , Heavy Bazooka: 5d .

Stingers , Man Portable MMLs & RLs plus Gyrosluggers are unaffected . We also allow Man Portable Heavy Recoilless Rifles from the NOVA pages in Military Games .

Works incredibly well & helps stop Peds from hiding all the time & using IDUs and other boobytraps etc .

Still everything short of MPHRR or Missile Launcher bouncing off anything of Heavy Armoured Car or 40 Space Tank size or larger can be incredibly frustrating for those on foot ...
__________________
Five Gauss Guns on a Camper !!!

Last edited by Racer; 11-18-2017 at 11:55 PM.
Racer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 08:10 AM   #17
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: House rules feedback

Hmm, I would have lowered the cost rather than increase the damage.
swordtart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 12:22 AM   #18
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, UK
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Hmm, I would have lowered the cost rather than increase the damage.
Oh we've done that too for some items : Laser Rifle $1,500 or $2,000 for Pulse version , Machine Pistol $200 , Laser LAW $1,500 , Laser VLAW $1,000 - +$500 on either for the Pulse upgrade , Bazooka $1,000 and our own item Laser Pistol $1,000 ( mod of Phaser Pistol from ADQ #10/2's Charge of the Light Brigade' ) .

Also from Military selection , cost of Hi-Res Telescopic Sights dropped from $4,000 to $1,500 ( considering standard Telescopic Sights are only $150 .... ) , and mentioned in Tanks/Tanks Article text item but never statted Hi-Res Binoculars $500 - +$300 to make them IR or +$100 to make LiteAmp™ .

Also our own items added : Swiss Army Knife $5 , Deluxe Swiss Army Knife $10 , Super Swiss Army Knight ( with Laser Pointer & Lock Picks etc ) $40 , Mini MediKits $50-$100 and Metal Detector/Hi-Res Metal Detector $500 & $2,000 respectively .

All have been hugely useful in our Games & Campaigns . Hope others would like to use them & will happily post stats when I've got the time :-)
__________________
Five Gauss Guns on a Camper !!!
Racer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 12:53 AM   #19
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
.
Due to the lack of effective Pedestrian Firepower ( especially against Military Vehicles ) , we've upped the damage by many Ped Rocket weapons by 1 Dice .

Reading the 'State of the Art Part 1' from ADQ #7/2 & the weapons description in AutoDuel Second Edition , it's clear that something was off .
Thus VLAW: 2d , LAW: 3d , Bazooka: 4d , HLAW: 4d , Heavy Bazooka: 5d .

Stingers , Man Portable MMLs & RLs plus Gyrosluggers are unaffected . We also allow Man Portable Heavy Recoilless Rifles from the NOVA pages in Military Games .

Works incredibly well & helps stop Peds from hiding all the time & using IDUs and other boobytraps etc .

Still everything short of MPHRR or Missile Launcher bouncing off anything of Heavy Armoured Car or 40 Space Tank size or larger can be incredibly frustrating for those on foot ...
Balance-wise I'm a bit dubious that it's a good plan (or even necessary) to give pedestrians even more firepower. Between some of the stuff in the Infantry Equipment in UACFH and the Tripod Weapons there's quite a bit of serious firepower available to pedestrians.

Consider, for example, what a pickup full of pedestrians using you up-powered VLAWs will do to your typical dueling car.

Or a dozen with body armor, a riot shield (to help against burst effects), and 3 VLAWs ($1600 each). At 2d each, that's a lot of damage.

I'd definitely consider your upgraded bazooka and a sunroof as a cheap high-damage turret option for cheap cars.

At the high end of the damage spectrum, don't forger that crew can fire hand weapons from regular cars and cycles. How about a cycle carrying a passenger (no extra space) with some of these weapons rather than regular vehicular weapons? A lot of vehicular weapons are marginal already. Upping the damage makes the pedestrian weapons a LOT better.

Making pedestrian weapons nastier has a lot of side effects, particularly for the more devious designers.

There's also the reaction to the increase in damage - add more armor. We're talking about military vehicles here. Arms race. And tanks have more room to get nastier.

If you're seriously dead-set on increasing the dice, you probably need to increase their cost too. FWIW, I'd recommend just creating a military explosive upgrade for the various weapons that ups their damage (maybe +2 or even +3 per die) with some sort of major cost increase - 10, 20, or even 30 times normal cost doesn't seem unreasonable.
__________________
Dynamax Designs, Designing quality since 2035.
Magesmiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.