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Old 09-21-2017, 10:08 PM   #11
tHEhERETIC
 
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

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Originally Posted by PenitentDemon View Post
Why is it, I have a feeling, that Angels would prefer even a white Wizard they deeply trusted, be an independent operator they occasionaly exchanged favors with, not partying with angels?
They hate when non-angels see them drunk? 0:)
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Old 09-24-2017, 05:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

One way to get a demon into celestial form (unless you're a Seraph) is deception ... make him think he can ambush and destroy an *angel* in celestial form and then turn the tables. Be warned, though, that celestial combat takes a long time unless you use house rules of one kind or another, so you need a demon that is either committed to the fight or who can't retreat easily, either to Hell or to Earth. My crew pulled it off a couple of times and both times involved Shedim.
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Old 09-25-2017, 09:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

Rather than soul killing a demon, the simplest way to take them out permanently is to drug them up to their eyeballs while unconscious. The rules (CPG 124-126) are quite brutal; LSD alone can *permanently* reduce their Will by multiple points, ensuring that they will never escape Trauma.

Other drug inflict Discord, as does NC:Tongue. Even coffee is a serious threat to Celestials.

If you are going the Sorcerous route, consider getting the Sorcerer to Will-War 5 demonlings into submission and get a Creationer to beget a reliever with their 'assistance': that's far more productive than just killing them.

However, do bear in mind that going the vindictive route - and soul killing is definitely the vindictive route - is going to be noticed. Slapping a demon into Trauma hurts their Superior, since a new Vessel must be paid for out of the Word's essence; but local demons are unlikely to care (especially since the demon is likely from a rival Word). *Killing* the demon...that's going to persuade the demons to co-operate against you, out of self-preservation.

The immunity of Malakim to Trauma means that the current low level warfare and stalemate actually benefits Heaven, combat turning nasty surrenders that advantage.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

Always wondered, When a Celestials sent on a mission thats likely to involve celestial combat, how healthy should their reward be?

Should a angel in particular have lost forces replaced? it said archangels will sometimes replace forces lost during a redemption... and a angel who loses them on a mission to Hell has a greater claim I think.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

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Originally Posted by PenitentDemon View Post
Always wondered, When a Celestials sent on a mission thats likely to involve celestial combat, how healthy should their reward be?

Should a angel in particular have lost forces replaced? it said archangels will sometimes replace forces lost during a redemption... and a angel who loses them on a mission to Hell has a greater claim I think.
While a lot will depend on the Superior, I think the main thing is that the GM is clear about the situation. Is this mission a 'losing a Force is acceptable damage' or not? David would probably be happy to replace Forces so long as you are grinding Hell down, Laurence if you were following orders, while Michael would probably have rewards solely determined by how successful you are, so as to encourage you to find ways to avoid the loss: but richly reward you for hurting Hell.
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Old 10-01-2017, 12:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

Zadkiel? Thought id ask.
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Old 10-01-2017, 02:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

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Originally Posted by PenitentDemon View Post
Zadkiel? Thought id ask.
Hmmmmm... The Archangel of Protection...

If the Forces were lost while defending somebody else, she'd probably replace them. If the Forces were lost because somebody went on the attack before others were ready, she probably wouldn't. (Then again, I suspect any Superior would frown upon a "Leroy Jenkins" maneuver.)

In general, if the action that caused the Force loss furthered the Superior's Word, then the Superior is probably going to be willing to restore the Forces.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

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Originally Posted by PenitentDemon View Post
Zadkiel? Thought id ask.
As part of her Word, she'd want to prevent it ever happening again, so any replacement Force would be Celestial to improve your Soul Hits and Dodge. NC:Spines is also a good reward to discourage getting clobbered
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

When a angel is sent to hell, or a demon to heaven, on a mission, I think the results will speak for themselves

Though, losing forces, is not a good sign, sadly, as most such missions will emphasize stealth

In heaven and hell, it says that Lucifers decreed any angels found in hell should be captured alive, so they can be interrogated and tortured.

Probaly about same thing for a demon found in heaven? except the torture?

asking "Why did you come, how did you come, were you sent on a mission by a superior, do you have a agent on our side, did you do anything prior to your capture?

Last edited by PenitentDemon; 10-05-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: How do you force a celestial to celestial combat? And what do you do with captive

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...
Probaly about same thing for a demon found in heaven? except the torture?

asking "Why did you come, how did you come, were you sent on a mission by a superior, do you have a agent on our side, did you do anything prior to your capture?
Assuming that the Light of Heaven hasn't toasted them before they're captured, yes. And Heaven doesn't need torture; it just needs a Choir of Seraphim. (Put enough of the Most Holy together and one of them will roll a 6 on their "detect Truth" CD...)
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