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Old 10-04-2017, 09:09 AM   #71
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

I think the AOA(d) combined with Grab and smash is a good way to go. I think it's easily justified and you get the best of both Dedicated and Strong*


*on the 2nd attack.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:40 AM   #72
Varyon
 
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

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All Out Attack Dedicated (+4 to skill) + DWA is usually better than All Out Attack Double since it gives a -1 to defend but I guess if there is no defense it doesn't matter.
When grappling isn't involved, and the character is using two weapons, I'd agree with you. In this case, you really want the initial grapple to be two-handed (as otherwise you're generating CP with only half your ST, giving you fewer to cash in for bonus damage and making it easier for the foe to escape if he survives the subsequent attack). Additionally, the knife has to be involved with the grapple in order to make use of my Draw Cut Technique - otherwise, you'll probably want to stab (with a Reverse Grip for more damage, of course).

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
I think the AOA(d) combined with Grab and smash is a good way to go. I think it's easily justified and you get the best of both Dedicated and Strong
Assuming you're trying to do it in one round, Dedicated will mean you have to either Rapid Strike (net -2) or DWA (net +0, and the grapple is one-handed). If you're doing it in two rounds, of course, Dedicated is pretty well the way to go (although depending on relative skill level Strong may be better for the second attack, for even more damage).
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:18 PM   #73
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Grab and Smash got confusing from MA>TG...

Is it possible to do a two handed grab whilst holding a knife in one of the hands? Or are you using a two handed grip on the knife?

This makes me think... Even with short handles you might overlap hands or else grab your own wrist or weapon to enhance force, similar to a cross or supported parry but offensively.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:00 PM   #74
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

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Grab and Smash got confusing from MA>TG...
Eh, not really. In MA you use All Out Attack (Double) to grapple and strike, getting the benefits of All Out Attack (Strong) on the strike, provided the grapple connects. In TG, you needn't go All Out - any time you grapple and strike the same round*, you may spend any CP from the grapple on a one-for-one basis to increase damage.

*I forgot the "same round" stipulation. Personally, I'd amend that - you can spend CP to boost damage in later rounds, but may spend no more than the same maneuver could generate as a grapple (so you can spend more on All Out Attack Strong than you can on Defensive Attack) and can no more than double damage.

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Is it possible to do a two handed grab whilst holding a knife in one of the hands? Or are you using a two handed grip on the knife?
When using GURPS default rules, I would use Knife for a grapple that consists of grabbing the face with the offhand and grappling the neck with the knife. If pressed, I'd use the lower of Knife and the character's grappling skill. My personal preference, however, is to have all Reach C grappling simply use a grappling skill, not a weapon skill - using the weapon skill is for grappling at a distance. Familiarity would apply, of course.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:21 PM   #75
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

I'm wondering if it would be simpler to just ignore two handed grapple, treat all grapples as one handed, then use DWA for two hands. Half of the -4 is made up for by the -1 to defense like a deceptive attack if you do the same location. As for the other -2, forcing 2 separate parries (cumulative -4 on second) makes up for it.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:32 PM   #76
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post


Assuming you're trying to do it in one round, Dedicated will mean you have to either Rapid Strike (net -2) or DWA (net +0, and the grapple is one-handed). If you're doing it in two rounds, of course, Dedicated is pretty well the way to go (although depending on relative skill level Strong may be better for the second attack, for even more damage).
well I'm also an idiot, the AoA(d) refers to 'double' not 'dedicated' even though I wrote dedicated in my post!

Grab and smash only works on AoA (double)
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:52 PM   #77
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

In MA. With the TG change you spend the CP from grab 1 on hit 2. I would like the idea of combining them and always getting 2 base plus spent CP.
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:18 AM   #78
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

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I'm wondering if it would be simpler to just ignore two handed grapple, treat all grapples as one handed, then use DWA for two hands.
Striking with each hand simultaneously is much harder than grabbing with both hands. In fact, it's often easier to grab something using both hands than just using one, as it effectively gives you a larger grabbing surface to work with. If anything, a two-handed grab is more similar to a strike with a two-handed weapon than it is to a DWA.

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well I'm also an idiot, the AoA(d) refers to 'double' not 'dedicated' even though I wrote dedicated in my post!

Grab and smash only works on AoA (double)
Oh, I see. Yeah, as Hellboy notes, TG gets rid of the AoA requirement.

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In MA. With the TG change you spend the CP from grab 1 on hit 2. I would like the idea of combining them and always getting 2 base plus spent CP.
The MA Grab and Smash essentially abstracts the CP expenditure into getting that bonus damage. TG is simply a higher resolution version, so getting both the benefits of Strong and being able to spend CP for more damage would be double-dipping. That said, I don't think it would be inappropriate for a Perk to allow something like this, but only as part of AoA (Double), and probably requiring the character to spend all the CP from the Grab portion for a damage bonus.
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:27 PM   #79
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Striking with both hands at once is DWA punch/punch if arms are separate or two-handed punch if they are together.

I guess I'm thinking it would be easier to grab with one hand than two.

What if MA 81 was used to design two handed grab? You only roll at -2 to skill which is balanced with a DWA (basically -2 when you realize the other -2 functions like a deceptive attack against one target) and the +2 damage could be changed to +2 control points.

Two handed punches and grabs seem like they would be easier to defend against. Lower skill accounts for that (less deceptive opportunity)

The inability to defend against limbs individually makes more sense if the wrists are pressed together as one body while attacking.
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