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Old 10-03-2017, 12:01 PM   #1
Hellboy
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Default Optional Damage to Cloaks

Checking out B287 DR and HP for cloaks. And wondering about B484 rules. Makes sense for cutting/impaling/fire... But having hard time imagining a 2 damage punch is able to damage a cloak....

Is this because it is being held taut by the defender making it more able to rip?

In situations where it is not (lessay, my cloak is bundled loosy on the ground and enemy is just punching it) wouldn't some resistance/DR against crushing attacks make sense?
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Optional Damage to Cloaks

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Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
Checking out B287 DR and HP for cloaks. And wondering about B484 rules. Makes sense for cutting/impaling/fire... But having hard time imagining a 2 damage punch is able to damage a cloak....

Is this because it is being held taut by the defender making it more able to rip?

In situations where it is not (lessay, my cloak is bundled loosy on the ground and enemy is just punching it) wouldn't some resistance/DR against crushing attacks make sense?
A cloak in use is not held taut. It probably should be resistant to crushing damage
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Optional Damage to Cloaks

I'm not entirely sure what the cloak as a shield is supposed to represent. It could just be 'wrap it around your arm and then block with your arm', which is a completely realistic thing to do, but it's not clearly a cloak skill, it's more like brawling parry plus heavy layered cloth armor on your forearm. All the other options I can think of are better described as a parry or obscurement.
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Optional Damage to Cloaks

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Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
Checking out B287 DR and HP for cloaks. And wondering about B484 rules. Makes sense for cutting/impaling/fire... But having hard time imagining a 2 damage punch is able to damage a cloak....

Is this because it is being held taut by the defender making it more able to rip?

In situations where it is not (lessay, my cloak is bundled loosy on the ground and enemy is just punching it) wouldn't some resistance/DR against crushing attacks make sense?
Author James Loriega visited a HEMA school in Spain where the cloak was mentioned. Descriptions make it sound more like a whip then a shield.

Probably a direct parry would be impossible, but you can tangle the weapon or better yet the arm and you can blind your opponent with a whack at the eye long enough to set up your attack. Or things like that.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Optional Damage to Cloaks

It's primary use is distraction and to parry aside lightweight blades.
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:03 PM   #6
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It's primary use is distraction and to parry aside lightweight blades.
Right. It can probably parry a small sword as not all of these had edges and those that did mainly had it to prevent grasping.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:48 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
A cloak in use is not held taut. It probably should be resistant to crushing damage
yep,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I'm not entirely sure what the cloak as a shield is supposed to represent. It could just be 'wrap it around your arm and then block with your arm', which is a completely realistic thing to do, but it's not clearly a cloak skill, it's more like brawling parry plus heavy layered cloth armor on your forearm. All the other options I can think of are better described as a parry or obscurement.
The cloak is held loose in the hand and used to effect the fight much like a shield or weapon would. (terms themselves that are not mutually exclusive in RL)

link to an article on it

Bit of re-enactment that looks pretty kosher
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:06 AM   #8
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I would describe everything in that video as use of an entangling weapon to parry. I see no justification for a non-zero DB, or for it being effective against missile weapons (it's comparable utility to a main-gauche, which does not have either one).
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Optional Damage to Cloaks

Can cloaks/shields be used to grapple for Control Points though? Or "striking at weapons" for damage/disarm... That may represent a lot of this stuff.

If cloaks got extra DR against crushing I would probably say it was flexible DR so that even if it wasn't damaged, some could get through and hurt your arm.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: Optional Damage to Cloaks

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I would describe everything in that video as use of an entangling weapon to parry. I see no justification for a non-zero DB, or for it being effective against missile weapons (it's comparable utility to a main-gauche, which does not have either one).
I posted those more to counter the suggestion that you wrapped a cloak around your arm and use it as padding to adsorb damage.


On what you've posted here.

That video is an example of cloak use not the sum total of all cloak use, cloaks were used to entangle (weapons and foes)

DB and missile weapons, well that all bit more esoteric in terms being allowed to or not, but frankly a DB is GURPS abstraction, what can I tell you is cloaks were used to absorb, or avoid attacks.


The thing is "Entangle" "Parry" "Block" "DB" are specific GURPS abstractions that describe separate things in the game some of which apply in some situation some that don't. But real life is not made up of such hard and fast distinctions, and a lot of them overlap, especially in slightly unusual stuff like using items of clothing to fight with.

When I fenced I was certainly taught some parries that by GURPS descriptions would be more a block than a parry. (and the same is true for judo)

Does that mean GURPS is wrong in not letting foils block, no (but neither does it mean I didn't learn them)

Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-04-2017 at 01:12 PM.
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