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Old 09-30-2017, 02:28 PM   #1
TimTimmy
 
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Default Trying to make Black Widow

I want to make the Black Widow character, and can't figure out Martial Arts. I am using the Gurps Character Sheet application, and it is great. But then I randomly add skills like Karate Sweep, hand strike, and elbow drop, and none of them seem to be added to my "Melee Weapon" window, so I have no idea what damage they do (I can't figure it out from the book).

So I need help from you guys. How close can I get to her character with 250 points? It would really help if you can tell me how much each martial arts move does for damage.

Thanks.
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Old 09-30-2017, 02:39 PM   #2
Dragondog
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

The only complete Black Widow I've found created with GURPS.
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

You should note that pointwise it's inefficient to buy up multiple techniques from the same base skill. If you buy +1 to each of three techniques, it costs you 6 points. But if you buy +1 to Karate, it costs you 4 points, and ALL THREE techniques (and all the other Karate techniques) get the benefit of that +1. Or you can buy +1 to Karate and +1 to one technique for 6 points, and then that one technique gets +2 and ALL the other Karate techniques get +1.

(Narratively, this encourages each character to have one signature move for each important skill.)

Other than that, I'm thinking that all three techniques you named are based on Karate. Karate is not a "melee weapon" skill but an unarmed combat skill. That might be affecting what you see. I'm not sure because I don't use character sheet software; I do it all by hand.
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:06 PM   #4
TimTimmy
 
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

I don't want to be "That guy" but figuring out Gurps combat is really hard. I have no idea what the damage is. What's a good Martial art? I want a good attack, and some dodge. Bonus points for telling me the damage for a str 12, dex 14 char.

Thanks.
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
I don't want to be "That guy" but figuring out Gurps combat is really hard. I have no idea what the damage is. What's a good Martial art? I want a good attack, and some dodge. Bonus points for telling me the damage for a str 12, dex 14 char.

Thanks.
GURPS Basic Set Characters p. 16 Damage is Thrust for 1d-1, ST 13 would get you 1d so worth considering.
High Karate skill also gets you a damage bonus.
Striking skills are Boxing, Brawling, and Karate with karate being the most overall effective at unarmed damage.
Grappling skills are Judo and Wrestling and I would build her with Judo, Karate, and Wrestling
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

What books do you have access to? That'll help us point you in the right direction.

They tend to frown on people just quoting segments of the books on the forum, is why I ask.
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:27 PM   #7
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

Ok, so, to figure out how much damage you do unarmed, start with a) your ST, which sets your basic "swing" and "thrust" damage (see the "Damage Table", p. B16), b) check the stats for unarmed attacks, which are listed along with other weapons in the Equipment chapter (p. B271 for the weapons tables, under Brawling and Boxing), or see if any of your techniques change the base damage, and c) apply any bonuses that apply for the skills or techniques you took.

So, for example, say you have ST 16, DX 15, Karate-16, and Exotic Hand Strike. Your base damage with a karate punch would be 1d+1 (base thrust damage) -1 (because a punch, by default, does thrust-1 damage), +2 (because having Karate skill at DX+1 or better adds +1/die), for a net of 1d+2 damage. Your Exotic Hand Strike, on the other hand (<-hah!), ends up at 1d+3, because according to the technique description, when you use it you roll thrust damage, not thrust-1, and the bonus for Karate still applies.

As to the question of how to build Black Widow in general, I would have to say you probably can't quite build her on only 250 points. She's a super-class martial artist, capable of keeping up with people like Captain America and Iron Man in a fight. 500 points or more is probably required. But if you want to get someone who's like Black Widow, just not quite as potent, here's what I'd suggest.

You'll definitely need high DX. She's very acrobatic in general, and her strikes and such seem to usually hit, and high DX will help with all of that. ST is the next priority, and it probably should be quite high as well. She's capable of a variety of stunts that absolutely require impressive strength to pull off - grappling larger-than-human aliens, knocking out humans in one or two punches, and so on. You might be able to save some points by buying mostly Striking ST instead of full levels of ST, however - pretty much all of her strength stunts that I can think of just need Striking ST, and she doesn't seem crazy tough; she mostly avoids damage rather than soaking it.

Next, for advantages, you'll want Trained by a Master. It unlocks a bunch of useful cinematic stuff Black Widow can pull off, and justifies buying up some cinematic techniques that other, non-amazing martial artists could try, but not train.

Lastly (though only in the sense of "after the rest of the stuff above", not as in "after the rest of the character is built", buy her Karate skill up quite high (probably in the 20s), and similarly a grappling skill - her movie version, at least, heavily favours grappling (consider her signature takedown of "wrap legs around target's neck, twist to make them fall/break neck", which is definitely a grappling maneuver). It's arguable whether her grappling skill is Judo or Wrestling. I lean slightly toward Wrestling, but that's because I just don't remember her doing too many throws, which are sort of Judo's signature thing, and I might just be forgetting a bunch of scenes where she does throw people.

Anyway, all those combined will make a pretty effective unarmed combatant. You'll need to add some other exotic or cinematic traits, things like Enhanced Dodge or Parry, Luck, and stuff like that to have her really keep up with superheroes, though - in GURPS, an unarmed combatant can do that sort of thing, but they do need to pay for it.
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

Quote:
Originally Posted by talonthehand View Post
What books do you have access to? That'll help us point you in the right direction.

They tend to frown on people just quoting segments of the books on the forum, is why I ask.
Oh good point he might not have GURPS Basic Set.
So here are some FREE suggestions if you do not and maybe even then.
GURPS Lite for Fourth Edition
GURPS Martial Arts Techniques Cheat Sheet
GURPS Combat Cards are handy for getting used to all the details of various maneuvers.

Also check out my blog and Mooks blog for good newbie tips and Douglas Coles Gaming Baillistic for more advanced stuff.
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

Quote:
Originally Posted by talonthehand View Post
What books do you have access to? That'll help us point you in the right direction.

They tend to frown on people just quoting segments of the books on the forum, is why I ask.
Basic, Martial Arts, Psionics

So, if I wanted to optimize, which non-weapon does the most damage? and how much is it?
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:52 PM   #10
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
So, if I wanted to optimize, which non-weapon does the most damage? and how much is it?
Not quite sure what you mean by "non-weapon" here - do you mean an unarmed attack, like a kick or punch? And by "how much is it", do you mean its character point cost?
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