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Old 09-29-2017, 08:19 AM   #1
Hellboy
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Default Shape shifting with Costs FP

Wouldn't be a one time cost to shift (ie cheap) or a cost per minute to maintain? (expensive!)

If the former, would there be a way to design latter? I basically want time spent in altered form to suck FP from human form.
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

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Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
Wouldn't be a one time cost to shift (ie cheap) or a cost per minute to maintain? (expensive!)

If the former, would there be a way to design latter? I basically want time spent in altered form to suck FP from human form.
Um, just say it's the latter? It's probably worth more than -5%, though.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

The -5% would be per switch.

To lose fp while you're in the form, add weakness to the template.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

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The -5% would be per switch.

To lose fp while you're in the form, add weakness to the template.
Yep, its definitely when you use the ability to switch and applied to the AF cost.
Not only is Ericthereds Weakness suggestion the RAW way to go it actually saves you points on the templates if fits an expensive template that is cheaper than applying it to the AF cost.
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Old 09-30-2017, 12:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

If I do not have recpricol injury/fatigue then weakness would exhaust the transformed state instead of the human state.

Maybe limit shape shifting with temporary disadvantage: weakness so that the human form is losing FP while transformed? Could be fine but pass out when you revert, but if you do not revert you could die from beyond 0 FP causing HP loss to human base.
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Old 09-30-2017, 01:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

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If I do not have recpricol injury/fatigue then weakness would exhaust the transformed state instead of the human state.
The 4th Ed. version of Alternate Form/Morph transfers HP and FP loss across forms by default - it's an enhancement to have separate pools, not a limitation to share them.
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
The -5% would be per switch.
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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Yep, its definitely when you use the ability to switch and applied to the AF cost.
Uhm… why? It produces a continuing effect. The morphing process is like taking off with Flight -- it's a momentary action, but you need to continuously use the ability. If you're struck with Neutralize, you don't loose the ability to change back -- you revert to your native form. By the terms from Powers, it's a switchable ability. I'd say the FP is paid per minute (or per second).
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

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Uhm… why? It produces a continuing effect.
It's been confirmed that Alternate Form and Morph act a bit differently than most other switchable abilities when it comes to limitations like Costs Fatigue or other ongoing costs (see the FAQ on this topic, for instance).

Because of the way the Shapeshifting advantages work, adding templates to your own, these sorts of limitations are a bit harder to balance. Think of it this way - say you take an Alternate Form, and apply Costs Fatigue to just the base 15 points. Now, you also take a template with a bunch of abilities. Now, in another build, if you took a bunch of advantages, but they cost FP to use, you'd get a discount. So with Alternate Form, if you have a positive template, and you charged an ongoing FP cost to maintain a transformation, you'd end up with abilities that were more limited, without the discount for that. But if you applied Costs Fatigue to the whole template cost, things get very weird too - for example, say you have a template that includes five 20-point advantages, and you apply Costs Fatigue to the whole cost. You'd save 5 points, and presumably have to pay 1 FP per minute to keep it all going. But someone who bought each of those advantages on its own, and put Costs Fatigue on each of them, would still save only 5 points total, but they'd have to spend 5 FP every minute to keep them active, and activate them on five separate rounds to boot.

Basically, for these reasons, it's actually simpler to handle ongoing costs for a transformation as part of the template cost, though things like Dependency.
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Old 09-30-2017, 05:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

Huh, right in the official FAQ and I missed it? I think I shall now commit sudoku.
Thanks for clarification!
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Old 09-30-2017, 05:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Shape shifting with Costs FP

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Huh, right in the official FAQ and I missed it? I think I shall now commit sudoku.
Thanks for clarification!
No worries! This tends to confuse a lot of people, I find, because it legitimately is one of the places where GURPS is pretty complicated. All in the name of balance, of course, but it's definitely a non-intuitive situation.
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