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Old 09-26-2017, 06:18 PM   #11
adm
 
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Default Re: Walls

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze View Post
...Used to be different, but every apartment/condo built since the early 70's, units are separated by at least 4" of reinforced concrete.
That really depends on local building codes. Apartments in SW Missouri are not built to those standards, or at least they weren't as recently as 2012.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:09 PM   #12
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One side issue is that even if you can see through the wall, you probably can't aim very effectively - multiple layers of variable composition stuff in a typical wall is going to do rather random things to the trajectory of the bullet even if it doesn't slow it down much. I'd probably make you roll as for a miss (as for Hitting the Wrong Target) - your successful to hit roll allowed you to hit the *wall*, not the guy behind it.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:38 PM   #13
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That really depends on local building codes. Apartments in SW Missouri are not built to those standards, or at least they weren't as recently as 2012.
It isn't about building code, it is about fire code. Units must be separated by something with a one hour fire rating, concrete is the cheapest way to do it.

Of course fire code in the US is a joke in most places. Many states have laws preventing municipalities from passing and enforcing them.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Walls

The 3e adventure campaign Operation Endgame, has a scenario "Operation Midnight" which involved a scene where badguys shoot at the heroes through a wall as part of an ambush. The ambush takes place at a motel bungalow in the Copenhagen red light district. The PCs are brought inside the bungalow and asked to sit on the couch in the lounge while the person who let them in leaves to get the boss. As soon as that person leaves, the ambush begins.

Or as the text states: "Three assassins wait in the kitchener, with Uzi submachine guns under their jackets. They open fire through the paper-thin walls. Although the assassins cannot see their targets, they do not have a lot of space in which to miss. Therefore, their shots suffer only a -5 penalty. All assassins use area auto fire to blanket the targets in bullets."

That might be of interest.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: Walls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Haze View Post
It isn't about building code, it is about fire code. Units must be separated by something with a one hour fire rating, concrete is the cheapest way to do it.

Of course fire code in the US is a joke in most places. Many states have laws preventing municipalities from passing and enforcing them.
Your comment would seem to imply that you know fire codes vary depending upon locality too.

It's been a lot of time since I lived in an apartment but when I did my experience did not match your statements. I've never come across your "one foot of reinforced concrete between apartments" before in any context including the specific one of bullet barriers.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: Walls

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It isn't about building code, it is about fire code. Units must be separated by something with a one hour fire rating, concrete is the cheapest way to do it.
Cheaper than two layers of drywall and fire retardant insulation?
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Old 09-27-2017, 02:42 AM   #17
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Cheaper than two layers of drywall and fire retardant insulation?
Possibly, it's going to depend on the insulation you use (and that's it own topic of conversation).


Also the cost effectiveness of using concrete depends on what your building and how your supporting it, a block of flats is one thing, a stand alone house is another.

A lot of this is down to cultural context as well, I live in an almost hundred year old house, even our interior non load bearing walls are double layered bricks and at least an inch of plaster (and other stuff in between brick layers).

Not that I think Edwardian terraced houses are bullet proof or anything!

Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-27-2017 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:53 AM   #18
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Not that I think Edwardian terraced houses are bullet proof or anything!
Maybe not, but double layer brick interior walls are a damn good start!
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:22 AM   #19
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Some exterior walls will just be siding, plywood, insulation, and the interior drywall.

There's a lot of variability there, and I suspect that's true even within towns and cities.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:38 AM   #20
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Maybe not, but double layer brick interior walls are a damn good start!
Well these bricks are pretty old and small!
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